Post V2 Catholic Evangelization
#1
So, for dispute and discussion, lemme throw this out there:

Did the change of the Mass into the vernacular after Vatican II help create the amazing spread of the Church that we have seen in the past 40 years particularly in Africa but also in some parts of Asia?  Or, conversely, and leaving aside the many non-Latin-Rite churches in communion with Rome for purposes of present argument, did preserving the Mass in Latin hinder evangelization prior to Vatican II?

If the vernacular helped, is it good?  If Latin hindered, was it bad?

There are certainly many causes for the spread of the Faith, as well as for the its decline in formerly nearly-exclusively Catholic regions like South America, and maybe it's too difficult to disentangle the effects of language from these other causes, but I'm interested in the forum's collective thoughts.
Reply
#2
I think we would have to know a little about the goverments in the countries and what kinds of helps and hindrances they may have placed in front of evangelization of any kind in order to have a realistic picture.

That being said, I would think that in uneducated areas the vernacular is much more effective as an evangelizing tool, but the actual survival and longterm health of the entire Church could be lost if we looked only at occasional surges in membership if the membership is not well-grounded;.
Reply
#3
The Church did a pretty good job in the past evangelizing with the Latin Mass,also known as Usus Antiquior.  The Church's history spans two thousand years so the last forty are significantly small in relative terms. 

But to answer your question, no, the Novus Ordo has not been good for the Church.  Keep in mind many people who attend the NO don't believe in the Real Presence, don't go to Confession, pick and choose moral teaching like contraception, etc. 

The question back to you is: are those parishioners Catholic?
Reply
#4
The change to vernacular certainly helped to retain still 1140 million Catholics, from which 20+% active.

The vernacular masses even in the US bring together more people per priest that the Latin masses. In a diocesan Church in the suburbs there are 4-7 Sunday masses (including the anticipated Mass at Saturday night), in the Latin Mass Churches the average is less than 3 . The pastor of my territorial Parish says 7 masses in every Sunday, and except for the Sunday early morning and Sunday late evening Masses all ar full, and the mentioned two brings together more that 200 people each.

The Eastern Catholics at least in Central Europe turned to vernacular, whit the exception of the Canon in the 1930's.
Reply
#5
Well, I don't know if the "amazing spread" has been all that amazing. While the numbers have increased, the % has stayed flat. It would seem to indicate that the growth in numbers can be attributed to a growth in population rather than winning over more converts.

To be fair, it just might be a net effect (ie - in Euro but + in Africa).
Reply
#6
There's nothing "amazing" about the post-conciliar Church. There's only sickness.
Reply
#7
(03-16-2010, 08:57 PM)glgas Wrote: The change to vernacular certainly helped to retain still 1140 million Catholics, from which 20+% active.

The vernacular masses even in the US bring together more people per priest that the Latin masses. In a diocesan Church in the suburbs there are 4-7 Sunday masses (including the anticipated Mass at Saturday night), in the Latin Mass Churches the average is less than 3 . The pastor of my territorial Parish says 7 masses in every Sunday, and except for the Sunday early morning and Sunday late evening Masses all ar full, and the mentioned two brings together more that 200 people each.

The Eastern Catholics at least in Central Europe turned to vernacular, whit the exception of the Canon in the 1930's.


You are obsessed with how many "Catholics" there are. The faith is not a numbers game. People go to heaven based on their beliefs and actions not whether or not they are a nominal Catholic.

So what if the vernacular brings together more people? Are they truly Catholic or are they just a warm body?

Stop supporting the sacrifice of truth for numbers.
Reply
#8
I wouldn't say there's been an amazing spread of the Church in Africa and Asia, the latter of which I'm guessing you mean mainly India.

The Church in those two areas of the world have their own underreported major problems, including false forms of inculturation and in Africa, their own sex scandals.

The Phillipines were evangelized pretty well by Spain long before the banal, on the spot product was even dreamed of, yet now, even they, the most Catholic country in Asia, have a problem getting vocations.

The irony in all of this is, the policy of the post conciliar Church is convergence, dialogue, ecumenism, and peaceful co-existence, not conversion.
Reply
#9
Another consideration is available services. In any place where the local infrastructure is weak and families are hard-hit by disease and hardship, the church with the best social services will attract members. It is not a bad thing, but it does not speak for "evangelism" in the Gospel sense if what is really going on is social service promotion. And also there is the question of whether other denominational figures are diluted by their various centers while the Catholic figures are well-centralized for counting purposes.
Reply
#10
(03-16-2010, 09:06 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: There's nothing "amazing" about the post-conciliar Church. There's only sickness.

Agreed.

Although there maybe more people who claim to be "Catholic," the vast majority of those people don't know what being Catholic truly is - and that is thanks to the Novus Ordo Mass 110%, a Mass that was designed to "help" Catholics loose their faith.

And as far as post V2 evangelization, that is really nill these days.  We have been dealt with a major guilt complex, and evangelization in the post-conciliar Church is dealt with hesitantly, if not at all.  Just think how the world would be if there was never a Second Vatican Council or a Protestantized Mass?  Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)