1 Million Austrians May Leave Church
#21
(03-20-2010, 10:06 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 09:26 PM)Walty Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 08:41 PM)Stubborn Wrote: Nope, without the Holy Sacrifice, the worst times have yet to be seen. 

I agreed with you up until the last line.  What do you mean exactly?

What I mean is: "It is the Mass that matters." Consider what that little sentence means. Right now and for the last +40 years, the NO has been the rule and because of that, the Church as a whole has experienced a massive loss of faith.

The loss of faith brings continuous chastisements that will necessarily get progressively worse - God demands appeasement and He is not getting it!

Without the Mass comes the loss of faith, which continues since the revolution and will continue till after the Mass returns.......by then, we may all be dead for 100 years.

With The Holy Sacrifice, God is appeased. Without it, God is not appeased. All indications to anyone above age 10 obviously points to God not being appeased.

In His mercy, He will allow - and who knows? -  even send more punishments or chastisements upon us all - meant to wake us up.

We all know that the gates of Hell will never prevail, but the battle that began some +40 years ago is now firmly rooted in at least two generations - look for worse chastisements before things get better is all I am suggesting. 

I think the Vatican II as a whole has been a disaster. Whatever its purpose or intent it has clearly failed (though I will quibble with people here that not all of it has been a disaster in large part the great majority of it indeed has been devastating) and this is clear Rome knows this, though many here still claim that they are still blind to the problem, but in reality they know it fully well and it is obvious by their actions that they know it. However as always the Church takes its time and exercises its options which I can see as I have said before only two.

1. Re adjust and re implement or rather re focus Vatican II to what it was suppose to be - Which is the current course of action undertaken by the Holly See. This is of course the whole notion of steering the Aircraft Carrier and its all very slow and methodical and trying not to make too many waves. God only knows how long it will take but we will get there.

2. Outright suppression of the council - Now many think that this is not an options, I disagree I think this very much and options for as we have been told many times before Vatican II taught nothing new, it was not dogmatic but pastoral. Pastoral can be suppressed it costs nothing as far as the dogmas of the Church are concerned. However it will create chaos, much more than the stupidity of the 60s because we are not dealing with faithful people but rather with those that have been taught to dissent from Church teaching and that it was just fine.

I think most of us would like to see Option 2 sooner rather than later.

As far as the NO is concerned look lets be honest it was a nice experiment but the thing has gotten out of hand. There were some good ideas on it but the so called ecumenical language was not one of them and def today it is just a mess.
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#22
(03-20-2010, 10:06 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 09:26 PM)Walty Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 08:41 PM)Stubborn Wrote: Nope, without the Holy Sacrifice, the worst times have yet to be seen. 

I agreed with you up until the last line.  What do you mean exactly?

What I mean is: "It is the Mass that matters." Consider what that little sentence means. Right now and for the last +40 years, the NO has been the rule and because of that, the Church as a whole has experienced a massive loss of faith.

The loss of faith brings continuous chastisements that will necessarily get progressively worse - God demands appeasement and He is not getting it!

Without the Mass comes the loss of faith, which continues since the revolution and will continue till after the Mass returns.......by then, we may all be dead for 100 years.

With The Holy Sacrifice, God is appeased. Without it, God is not appeased. All indications to anyone above age 10 obviously points to God not being appeased.

In His mercy, He will allow - and who knows? -  even send more punishments or chastisements upon us all - meant to wake us up.

We all know that the gates of Hell will never prevail, but the battle that began some +40 years ago is now firmly rooted in at least two generations - look for worse chastisements before things get better is all I am suggesting. 

Oh yeah.  I agree with you 100%.  And this is all leading to a head.  I'm not sure how this is going to play out but it will get ugly.  Traditionalists will face off against the Modernists at some point and it will be for the very soul of the Church and all Her members.  Or perhaps the Church will have to go underground.  Either way you are certainly correct. 

We desperately need the Mass back as it is intended. 
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#23
(03-20-2010, 11:00 PM)Walty Wrote: Oh yeah.  I agree with you 100%.  And this is all leading to a head.  I'm not sure how this is going to play out but it will get ugly.  Traditionalists will face off against the Modernists at some point and it will be for the very soul of the Church and all Her members.  Or perhaps the Church will have to go underground.  Either way you are certainly correct. 

We desperately need the Mass back as it is intended. 

Well, we were underground, literally, in the late 60s and into much of the 70s - no joke.........now we may well be headed back there, but personally I don't think so.

IMHO, the next fight will be the mother of all fights - no hiding in the catacombs this time. I just don't think God's gonna take another trip to the catacombs because; A) He expects the Militant that are left to actually be militant and triumphant -  and: B) He's had enough of the NO. . . . . . . Consider how sick many are of the NO, multiply THAT by a zillion gillion etc to feel it from God's  perspective, or then again: C) Our Blessed Mother holds the hand of God from falling till ?
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#24
(03-20-2010, 11:24 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 11:00 PM)Walty Wrote: Oh yeah.  I agree with you 100%.  And this is all leading to a head.  I'm not sure how this is going to play out but it will get ugly.  Traditionalists will face off against the Modernists at some point and it will be for the very soul of the Church and all Her members.  Or perhaps the Church will have to go underground.  Either way you are certainly correct. 

We desperately need the Mass back as it is intended. 

Well, we were underground, literally, in the late 60s and into much of the 70s - no joke.........now we may well be headed back there, but personally I don't think so.

IMHO, the next fight will be the mother of all fights - no hiding in the catacombs this time. I just don't think God's gonna take another trip to the catacombs because; A) He expects the Militant that are left to actually be militant and triumphant -  and: B) He's had enough of the NO. . . . . . . Consider how sick many are of the NO, multiply THAT by a zillion gillion etc to feel it from God's  perspective, or then again: C) Our Blessed Mother holds the hand of God from falling till ?

So you're saying that the next battle will be the big one?  It'll be eschatological, or as Lewis puts it The Last Battle?  I've become more and more convinced of that over the past 6 months or so for many different reasons.  I fear that Modernism will have to be conquered by Christ Himself.
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#25
(03-20-2010, 11:27 PM)Walty Wrote: So you're saying that the next battle will be the big one?  It'll be eschatological, or as Lewis puts it The Last Battle?  I've become more and more convinced of that over the past 6 months or so for many different reasons.  I fear that Modernism will have to be conquered by Christ Himself.

I don't know, I just can say that these times are very mild compared to back then. Best as I can remember, Trads all thought the world was gonna end before 1975- I mean things were just so flippin chaotic and rotten for like 8 years that Trads thought for sure God could take no more and that the world was gonna end at any moment.

Folks like Fr. John O'conner and Fr. Altenbauch made cassette tapes about what the H was going on.

There was no internet so rumors flew like crazy - whether they were true or not. In those times there were sooo many good clergy who were smeared to the max - so the NO could gain more ground.

Heck, for a long time, folks even stocked up heavily on Clorox because one rumor was they were gonna stop adding disinfectant to all cleaning products - which meant new and strange diseases would emerge (I sometimes wonder about if that rumor was true or not lol)  - - - - I mean EVERYTHING was chaotic. Nowadays it's old news to hear about a million leaving the NO when 100s of millions have already held that banner, generally led by NO bent clergy some 40 years ago.     
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#26
(03-20-2010, 11:27 PM)Walty Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 11:24 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(03-20-2010, 11:00 PM)Walty Wrote: Oh yeah.  I agree with you 100%.  And this is all leading to a head.  I'm not sure how this is going to play out but it will get ugly.  Traditionalists will face off against the Modernists at some point and it will be for the very soul of the Church and all Her members.  Or perhaps the Church will have to go underground.  Either way you are certainly correct. 

We desperately need the Mass back as it is intended. 

Well, we were underground, literally, in the late 60s and into much of the 70s - no joke.........now we may well be headed back there, but personally I don't think so.

IMHO, the next fight will be the mother of all fights - no hiding in the catacombs this time. I just don't think God's gonna take another trip to the catacombs because; A) He expects the Militant that are left to actually be militant and triumphant -  and: B) He's had enough of the NO. . . . . . . Consider how sick many are of the NO, multiply THAT by a zillion gillion etc to feel it from God's  perspective, or then again: C) Our Blessed Mother holds the hand of God from falling till ?

So you're saying that the next battle will be the big one?  It'll be eschatological, or as Lewis puts it The Last Battle?  I've become more and more convinced of that over the past 6 months or so for many different reasons.  I fear that Modernism will have to be conquered by Christ Himself.

Personally, I don't think that the next battle will be the "last battle," but it will be a major battle.  For the last 50 years or so, Satan has been attacking the Church from WITHIN.  He believes that he can ruin the Kingdom of Christ on earth from the inside, but we know what Scripture tells us - that the gates of hell will not prevail.  We will be assaulted, and for the last 40 years we have been beaten severely, to the point of near submission, but the devil will NOT prevail.  His rouse will ultimately be defeated by the true Catholics - which is the next major battle.  As some of the post-apostolic prophesies state, after this battle will be a time of peace, the "Age of Mary" when the Church will once again retain its former glory with all previous disciplines being reinstated.  I believe that after such a defeat, Satan will abandon his plans of attacking the Church from within, and he will turn to "Plan B" -- attack the Church from the outside.  I believe that this time will be the great "physical" persecution, the time of the final "Antichrist."  We are living through the time of the great "spiritual" persecution.  Both are equally terrible because the souls are lost in both ways - perhaps even more so in our own times due to the subverted nature of the attack.
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#27
A million will leave........and what's there to keep them in?  Ecumenist priests who've taught for 40 years that all faiths are equal?  Pervasive failure of catechesis at every level?  Relentless desacralization of the liturgy?  Hideous architecture?

It's only a surprise that there are a million left in to leave.
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#28
Anyone willing to leave the Church and forfeit their salvation over this issue wasn't really in it anyway.  How many Traditional Catholics do you think are leaving?
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#29
(03-21-2010, 05:53 PM)Ockham Wrote: Anyone willing to leave the Church and forfeit their salvation over this issue wasn't really in it anyway.  How many Traditional Catholics do you think are leaving?

Depends on who you ask
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