Is it rational, reasonable, and logical to believe in God?
#11
That's why God doesn't exist in the universe.

I didn't say that it's an air-tight proof for the existence of God.  I personally don't believe there is one.  What I am saying is that, at the end of the day, the most logical conclusion, in my opinion, of understanding how anything is at all is a God.  It doesn't have to be the Christian God.  It doesn't even have to be a personal God, but something which is essentially God is needed to make sense of existence because the only other real option available to our logic is something out of nothingness and that's much harder to swallow.
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#12
(03-27-2010, 02:06 AM)Walty Wrote: That's why God doesn't exist in the universe.

I didn't say that it's an air-tight proof for the existence of God.  I personally don't believe there is one.  What I am saying is that, at the end of the day, the most logical conclusion, in my opinion, of understanding how anything is at all is a God.  It doesn't have to be the Christian God.  It doesn't even have to be a personal God, but something which is essentially God is needed to make sense of existence because the only other real option available to our logic is something out of nothingness and that's much harder to swallow.

One could say there is no outside the universe because the universe is existence - something cannot exist outside of existence.

I wasn't attacking and completely respect your opinion as much as I respect the opinion to the contrary.  I felt obligated to reply as someone mentioned my name in conjunction to the argumentI totally agree with you that there is no proof or disproof.

That(infinite regress) is my favorite proof as well and like I said it feels beautiful.

It would be nice to be alive long enough for someone to solve string theory.
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#13
Qui bene distinguit, bene docet.

To believe in God is not rational, that is the faith, the supernatural gift of God.

To understand that God is the fist principle w/o principle outside him, and together with that certain attributes of God is rational, reasonable and logical.
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#14
I recommend that you listen to debates about the existence of God, and you will be left with no doubt as regards the fact that it is rational, reasonable and logical to believe in God: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/audio...mLaneCraig

The theist in those debates, William Lane Craig, has a most interesting website featuring a wealth of insightful resources on the matter (registration, which is required to access articles, is free): http://www.reasonablefaith.org/
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#15
(03-27-2010, 04:53 AM)Thacrow Wrote: It would be nice to be alive long enough for someone to solve string theory.

I agree with that.  I've always been fascinated by it.  However, I do not believe that God can ever be disproved (and probably never proven either) from science.  You cannot prove something radically transcendent and outside of the universe from within the universe.
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#16
(03-27-2010, 06:47 AM)glgas Wrote: Qui bene distinguit, bene docet.

To believe in God is not rational, that is the faith, the supernatural gift of God.

To understand that God is the fist principle w/o principle outside him, and together with that certain attributes of God is rational, reasonable and logical.

This is simply not true.  While believing the God of Christianity does require Faith in so far as it is not something which can necessarily be empirically proven, this does not mean that the existence of God as Creator cannot be deduced from logic.  We can see as much in the work of Plato and Aristotle as well as the many Christian theologians and logicians who have worked many different arguments for the existence of God from logic alone.  Do we have to throw out Lewis' argument from the Natural Law?  What about St. Anselm?
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#17
(03-27-2010, 04:53 AM)Thacrow Wrote: One could say there is no outside the universe because the universe is existence - something cannot exist outside of existence.

Phew-ee!
That's a very gratuitous, grandiose and meaningless generalisation.
Since your teeth appear to be as yet undeveloped you should, perhaps, strengthen your gums with some of the softer fare as found in these 'sites:

                http://www.catholicapologetics.info/
and:

                 http://www.overcomeproblems.com/

Be sure to check "useful links....Incorruptibles" on the latter.
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#18
(03-27-2010, 01:25 PM)Oldavid Wrote:
(03-27-2010, 04:53 AM)Thacrow Wrote: One could say there is no outside the universe because the universe is existence - something cannot exist outside of existence.

Phew-ee!
That's a very gratuitous, grandiose and meaningless generalisation.
Since your teeth appear to be as yet undeveloped you should, perhaps, strengthen your gums with some of the softer fare as found in these 'sites:

                http://www.catholicapologetics.info/
and:

                 http://www.overcomeproblems.com/

Be sure to check "useful links....Incorruptibles" on the latter.

It's just an argumnent.  I'm not saying it's fact because then there would be no argument.  I'm not sure exactly what you would like me to read.  I was looking on both sites.
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#19
(03-27-2010, 07:22 AM)veritatem_dilexisti Wrote: I recommend that you listen to debates about the existence of God, and you will be left with no doubt as regards the fact that it is rational, reasonable and logical to believe in God: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/audio...mLaneCraig

The theist in those debates, William Lane Craig, has a most interesting website featuring a wealth of insightful resources on the matter (registration, which is required to access articles, is free): http://www.reasonablefaith.org/

Those are both really amazing sites especially the first one.  I've watched debates on youtube including Craig vs. Hitchens and I have profound respect for Craig.  He is quite the intellect.  I have not seen such a good repository for debates.  It is on my favorites, thank you.
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#20
(03-27-2010, 01:11 PM)Walty Wrote: To believe in God is not rational, that is the faith, the supernatural gift of God.

To understand that God is the fist principle w/o principle outside him, and together with that certain attributes of God is rational, reasonable and logical.

This is simply not true.  While believing the God of Christianity does require Faith in so far as it is not something which can necessarily be empirically proven, this does not mean that the existence of God as Creator cannot be deduced from logic.  We can see as much in the work of Plato and Aristotle as well as the many Christian theologians and logicians who have worked many different arguments for the existence of God from logic alone.  Do we have to throw out Lewis' argument from the Natural Law?  What about St. Anselm?
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They gave rational proof that God is the fist principle without principle outside Him.  You should not believe them, you can follow their logic for yourself.

What is above that: e.g. that God gave commandments for  the human being, what we shall follow is beyond this rational understanding, that should be the object of faith. It is not only for Christians, the Muslim belief in Allah is also  beyond the rational understanding, so is the Hundi belief in Brahman. Not necessarily true, but not rational, logical understanding, but belief.
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