Is it rational, reasonable, and logical to believe in God?
#51
This is all the proof I need

[Image: 158879750_4a93fd9ac4.jpg]

Everytime I eat one of these washed down with a nice Barolo I say to myself, "There must be a God".

Looking forward to an Aberdeen Angus Sirloin on the grill on Easter Sunday.
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#52
(03-31-2010, 05:34 PM)Malleus Haereticorum Wrote:
(03-30-2010, 07:56 PM)Walty Wrote:
(03-30-2010, 06:04 PM)Malleus Haereticorum Wrote: The answer to this question assumes that reason alone determines what is or isnt rational.   

Are we to debate by earthly standards?   Just who determined that?

Certainly the Catholic Faith is called the Catholic Faith for a reason.

GOD's Grace alone converts.

Now this may be a blow to some people - who think it is by their eloquence , knowledge , or abilities of reason that souls are converted. But essentially - it always comes down to GOD's Grace and the individuals willingness to conform their own free will to HIS Will.

Me?  I am merely a messenger.   I try only to relay his truths that stand on their own merit.   Universal Truths Transmitted by the SAINTS and Holy Mother the Church for centuries.   

The Worthy hear their Masters voice.  The sheep that are of his fold hear the Shepherd.   Its the same as the parable of the sower and the seed.

Those who choose to do their own will rather than the will of GOD are allowed to do so - for many are called and few are chosen. Yes there is a constant battle of the Spirit and the Flesh - so to think one can embrace the Flesh and its temporal allures and the Spiritual Truths of everlasting life and embrace both simultaneously are merely fooling themselves.

So is it rational , reasonable and logical to believe in GOD?   Depends entirely upon whose set of values one chooses to embrace.  The spirit or the flesh.  And depending on how one answers that - the answer is both yes and no.

Would the person who doesnt believe in GOD accept his truths in a Spiritual Context?  Obviously not.  Would I embrace Hell for eternity knowing what I know?  Obviously not.

Pax

No offense, but this is Protestantism.

Malleus: I am never offended by Catholics who assume they know what they are talking about but then prove otherwise the more they post. I am certain that if you know what you are talking about you will likewise be as prepared to defend your views with Catholic apologetics as i am prepared to do.     But if you are like most I run into - this is about as much as you have to offer. Opinion sans facts.

Pax

Hah.  You want to talk, let's talk.
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#53
God is a Spirit; and there is a spark of Spirit in each of us, so that we can seek and reach God.

Here is my testimony about this.

I was illegitimate, child of unmarried adults in lust; one high-born, one low-born but "of the bloodline."
At birth in a Catholic hospital, I was abandoned by my mother that day.
In a crib, on a flat surface facing the clock, and between curtains, I waited.
I didn't know what I was waiting for; only I knew somebody wasn't coming; so I panicked.
I don't know why, but the memory stops there when I found Peace somehow.
Maybe the sisters prayed for me.  Maybe God heard my wailing and panic and came to me.
Six years later, walking alone the Venice California boardwalk early in the morning,
I met up with a woman carrying a Bible; and she read it to me, about how Jesus dealt with people, fairly.
And I liked the sound of that (because my parents were splitting up).  So, when the lady asked me,
"Can you give you life to Jesus?" I said, "Sure! That makes sense.  He'll show me what to do!"
And so, I became a drop-out from society at that very moment.  Nobody's argument made any difference anymore.
If Jesus said it was not the correct thing to do, then it was not appropriate.
I still just go back to Scriptures and read what Jesus said, and I read what the Law said,
so I know what is right and what is wrong from His Father's point of view.
All that stuff about getting even and going after other cultures and causing harm and great cost, are lost on me.
And that's how I conduct myself to this day, for better or for worse.

: )  EEWC
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#54
What the hell are you guys going on about? Yes it is "rational, reasonable and logical" to believe in the existence of God. I think we figured that out a few hundred years back. That's why people started questioning what "reasonable, rational and logical" mean. Catch up, class.  :)

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#55
No3456, your post makes more sense than all the twits talking about faith and reason and heresy and blah blah blah. Pray for us all.
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#56
(05-07-2010, 04:31 AM)Benno Wrote: No3456, your post makes more sense than all the twits talking about faith and reason and heresy and blah blah blah. Pray for us all.

Heh heh. Fair enough I think.
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#57
(04-12-2010, 07:59 PM)No3456 Wrote: God is a Spirit; and there is a spark of Spirit in each of us, so that we can seek and reach God.

Here is my testimony about this.

I was illegitimate, child of unmarried adults in lust; one high-born, one low-born but "of the bloodline."
At birth in a Catholic hospital, I was abandoned by my mother that day.
In a crib, on a flat surface facing the clock, and between curtains, I waited.
I didn't know what I was waiting for; only I knew somebody wasn't coming; so I panicked.
I don't know why, but the memory stops there when I found Peace somehow.
Maybe the sisters prayed for me.  Maybe God heard my wailing and panic and came to me.
Six years later, walking alone the Venice California boardwalk early in the morning,
I met up with a woman carrying a Bible; and she read it to me, about how Jesus dealt with people, fairly.
And I liked the sound of that (because my parents were splitting up).  So, when the lady asked me,
"Can you give you life to Jesus?" I said, "Sure! That makes sense.  He'll show me what to do!"
And so, I became a drop-out from society at that very moment.  Nobody's argument made any difference anymore.
If Jesus said it was not the correct thing to do, then it was not appropriate.
I still just go back to Scriptures and read what Jesus said, and I read what the Law said,
so I know what is right and what is wrong from His Father's point of view.
All that stuff about getting even and going after other cultures and causing harm and great cost, are lost on me.
And that's how I conduct myself to this day, for better or for worse.

: )  EEWC

Well, couldn't someone do the same of any moral reformer, such as Ghandi? A person could say that they liked what Ghandi said - it makes sense to them - so therefore he has truth. To people are trying to discern God, what makes the word of Jesus more credible than the words of others moral reformers? I am not reducing Jesus to "just another man" - everyone here knows that I am a Catholic - but the point of this thread was to approach the matter from the world's perspective in which truth has been so obscured by all those who claim to have it. How do we know that Jesus was telling the Truth? How do we know Muslims aren't? How do we know there is a Supreme Being to begin with? Is that belief illogical? Of course, we as Catholics know the answer to these questions, but the poster who inspired the thread doesn't. I wanted our objective (as objective as they can be) opinions as to why it should be abundantly obvious. To the world, following Jesus is just a cult following (followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader). That cult has since spread into an official organized religion, but it is all a vehicle for control and power. How do we know they are wrong?
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#58
There has to be something more to existence than this life.  Otherwise I want my money back.  I feel like I have a great spiritual/mental void that needs to be filled.

Celebrity culture?

Material goods?

4 weeks of vacation to a load of places that are just like all the other places?

All the atheists I know have f**ked up lives.  Divorced, kids hate them, etc, etc.

There must be a God, since I've resisted the temptation to drink bleach for the last 20 years.

More or less following God's rules (I try) does lead to more happiness in this life.  I am loyal to Mrs ggregski and she to me and the kids respect us and we function well as a family.  Belief in a God gives you a reason to knock some/most of your selfish edges off and makes you more pleasant to live with.  Who would want to be married to Richard Dawkins?  What a pompus git.

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#59
(03-27-2010, 04:53 AM)Thacrow Wrote:
(03-27-2010, 02:06 AM)Walty Wrote: That's why God doesn't exist in the universe.

I didn't say that it's an air-tight proof for the existence of God.  I personally don't believe there is one.  What I am saying is that, at the end of the day, the most logical conclusion, in my opinion, of understanding how anything is at all is a God.  It doesn't have to be the Christian God.  It doesn't even have to be a personal God, but something which is essentially God is needed to make sense of existence because the only other real option available to our logic is something out of nothingness and that's much harder to swallow.

One could say there is no outside the universe because the universe is existence - something cannot exist outside of existence.
It would be nice to be alive long enough for someone to solve string theory.

You have flawed logic here - the universe EXISTS - that does not mean it is the entirety of ALL that exists.  Yes, it is the entirety of all that exists in PHYSICAL reality, but immaterial reality exists and it is not part of the physical universe.

This is called equivocation - you are using existence to mean two different things.  Your last part was, however, true: "something cannot exist outside of existence".  But, just to reiterate, existence includes the material and immaterial.
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