Should Pope Benedict condemn Paul VI and John Paul II over the clergy abuse?
#11
(03-30-2010, 02:06 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: It's already happening somewhat with Cardinal Schoenborn coming to the Pope's defense by spiling this story:

Damien Thompson:

"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger tried to persuade Pope John Paul II to mount a full investigation into a cardinal who abused boys and young monks, one of the Church’s most senior figures revealed yesterday. But Ratzinger’s opponents in the Vatican managed to block the inquiry. As the future Benedict XVI put it: “The other side won.”

The pervert cardinal was the late Hans Hermann Groer, removed as Archbishop of Vienna in 1995 following sex allegations. The source for the story is Groer’s successor in Vienna, Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, an intellectual whom some commentators have tipped as a possible future Pope.

That’s quite a revelation, in my book – but it doesn’t fit the script that the Benedict-hating media have written, so we’re not hearing too much about it. Also, I suspect that former advisers to John Paul would rather not remind us that the late Pope didn’t do enough to curb sex abuse and cover-ups. Safer to blame Benedict, eh?

Here’s the quote from a report by Philip Pullella of Reuters:

Vienna’s Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, in defence of the pope, told ORF Austrian television on Sunday that Benedict wanted a full probe when former Vienna Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer was removed in 1995 for alleged sexual abuse of a boy.

But other Curia officials persuaded the then Pope John Paul that the media had exaggerated the case and an inquiry would only create more bad publicity.

“Ratzinger told me, ‘the other side won’,” Schoenborn said.

The other side. I suspect he was referring to a Vatican old boys’ club that Cardinal Ratzinger never joined, and which didn’t want sex abuse cases to “damage the good name of the Church” (ie, disturb their back-slapping suppers in favoured trattorie).

And the irony is that the journalists who have written lazy and hate-filled articles about Benedict XVI – such as this dreadful piece by India Knight, someone I’d previously admired – are unwittingly providing protection to the really compromised figures in the Vatican and bishops’ conferences.

Groer, who was as guilty as hell, died in 2003. Here is a BBC report from 1998:

The news agency of the Roman Catholic Church in Austria says a former Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer, is to go into exile, because of accusations against him of sexual misconduct.

The report follows the release of a statement by the church in Vienna in which Cardinal Groer, 78, asked for forgiveness but made no admission of guilt.

“In the past three years there have been many often incorrect statements concerning me. I ask God and the people for forgiveness if I have brought guilt upon myself,” he says in the statement.

Cardinal Groer stepped down as head of the Roman Catholic Church in Austria in 1995 following charges that he had sexually abused a schoolboy 20 years earlier. After his resignation there were further allegations that he sexually molested monks.

The charges were ignored by the Church hierarchy until two months ago when a papal investigation commenced. The inquiry was ordered by the Pope after appeals from church leaders to settle the controversy and restore the Church’s status in Austria.

Now the statement follows a request from the Pope that Cardinal Groer give up his duties and is being taken as a sign that the investigation has found against him.

The BBC correspondent in Vienna says many Catholics in Austria are bitterly divided over the issue and some have accused the Church of covering up.

The Bishop’s chancellery in Vienna said no further steps are expected from Rome. The correspondent says this is likely to further offend the many Catholics who think Hermann Groer should no longer be a cardinal.

No further steps from Rome. Why? Probably because, according to Cardinal Schoenborn – who has some maverick views but is certainly not a liar – the future Benedict XVI had lost his battle to mount a proper investigation of a sex abuser Cardinal, instead of the secretive and inconclusive one that apparently took place. No wonder he demanded full authority to investigate these cases and assumed greater responsibility for them in 2001.

He’s facing a terrible situation, no doubt about it; and no doubt also he made mistakes himself: the fact that he was far more vigilant than other cardinals doesn’t mean he was vigilant enough.

But history will show that it was Benedict XVI, not John Paul II, who initiated the “purification” of the Church to remove its “filth” – his words, and uttered long before this current crisis arose."
Wow. I did not know this.
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#12
Holy Father Pope Benedict 16 should declare that all Popes since 1958 were invalid and masonic. Therefore, they were not true Popes. Then bring in Cardinal Siri.
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#13
(03-30-2010, 08:48 PM)ILoveChineseMoonCakes Wrote: Holy Father Pope Benedict 16 should declare that all Popes since 1958 were invalid and masonic. Therefore, they were not true Popes. Then bring in Cardinal Siri.

We could dig Siri out of his grave and dress him up as pope, too. How exciting!
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#14
(03-30-2010, 02:27 PM)McNider Wrote: I agree with DK. Condemnations of his predecessor would only make things worse. He must weather the storm.

It's pretty clear that the Pope is doing a good job. If he wasn't, the world wouldn't be trying to get rid of him.

I also agree with DK.  Fix the problem; blame is useless.
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#15
I'm on the fence, but I don't think a papal condemnation would necessarily be passing the buck or laying blame, but rather acknowledging that the Shepherds have failed in their primary duty to protect the flock and guard the deposit of faith. 

A clear message of, "Business as usual is at an end.  There's a new Shepherd in town and heads are gonna roll." would be an implicit statement that this isn't your hippie father's or grandfather's Church anymore. 

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#16
Benedict is fixing the problem and has been fixing the problem even before the scandals broke in 2002.

If you're a homosexual and you're caught, you're out.  There was a priest in Germany recently who was advertising on line and someone found it and sent it in to the Diocese.  He was gone the next day, suspended a divinis... and that might not have happened, say, before 2004.  It certainly didn't happen in Bishop Cawcutt of South Africa who made smiliar admissions of a lack of chastity back in the 90s.
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#17
(03-30-2010, 08:48 PM)ILoveChineseMoonCakes Wrote: Holy Father Pope Benedict 16 should declare that all Popes since 1958 were invalid and masonic. Therefore, they were not true Popes. Then bring in Cardinal Siri.

I am all for that as I tend to believe Benedict is our first true Pope since 1958 but the part about bringing in Cardinal Siri is rather impractical as he died in 1989.
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#18
(03-31-2010, 12:32 AM)Baskerville Wrote:
(03-30-2010, 08:48 PM)ILoveChineseMoonCakes Wrote: Holy Father Pope Benedict 16 should declare that all Popes since 1958 were invalid and masonic. Therefore, they were not true Popes. Then bring in Cardinal Siri.

I am all for that as I tend to believe Benedict is our first true Pope since 1958 but the part about bringing in Cardinal Siri is rather impractical as he died in 1989.

We need to end this line of discussion here, please.
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#19
(03-31-2010, 12:20 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Benedict is fixing the problem and has been fixing the problem even before the scandals broke in 2002.

.

This is what I dont get Cardinal Ratzinger/Benedict has been doing all he could while JPII the clown Pope sat back and basked in his cult of personality this just makes no sense that they are attacking him this stuff happened back in the 60's, 70's and 80's mostly under the reign of the Churches two worst popes Paul VI an alleged homo and JPII santo subito. No sense at all leave Benedict alone.
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#20
What we are seeing are the modernist chickens coming home to roost. Meaning that all the slack discipline, looking the other way, making excuses and pursuing peace with the world from the previous popes is now coming to fruition.
What are the fruits? No vocations, boring and blasphemous liturgies, new generation that has no religious training, and sexual scandals by lax clergy.
This is all part of the overall decadence of the Church since VII and the unwillingness of the previous popes, especially JP2, to control and discipline his flock.
Benedict XVI doesn't need to condemn his predecessors, historians will do that for him in the next few decades, but what he does need to do is make a grand gesture, don't let this crisis go to waste, he can use it as justification to clean house and remove all liberal modernist clergy under the pretext of restoring moral order.
The modern world won't like it, but they can't say much because it was done at their instigation.
First, I would set up a new office of 'inquisition' the job of which is to solely seach out moral failings of clergy and to ensure the seminary traning is beyond criticism. This office would employ several hundreds of priests (perhaps from the SSPX or other traditional leanings) and would have immediate power to fix problems and make decisions as they travel the world over to clean house.
Next i would set up another group to ensure that all seminaries are beyond reproach in teaching and practice.
While I am at it i would have an investigation of all major Catholic universities
And i would remove all bishops that have not handled abuse issues properly and/or caused other problems, especially the Mahoneys etc.
Of course to do this he needs a good supply of orthodox priests, so why not just regularize the SSPX even without their OK and then ask them to get to work?
Fr. Schmidtberger admitted in an interview that the SSPX is willing to help the pope clean house, "...even the toilets...."
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