Our Lady, a Jewish mother?
#11
Isn't Mary from the root of Jesse, and isn't Jesus, her Son the Davidic King? If these are true she is the Davidic Queen Mother.  Didn't Mary observe all of the laws of Moses, and didn't Jesus as well? The current Jews aside, Jesus was a Jew par excellance.

WRC probably used "Jewish Mother" in the modern parlance to evoke the image of a dotting mother that makes chicken soup, speaks yiddish, and calls  her forty-nine year old son to make sure he is in bed at 10:00 pm.. He was being light hearted and descriptive. Sometimes here, we see bogey men where there are none. The heretics, schismatics, and apostates are out there, and very few are in the tank. Reason is very over rated. We are finite and can not solve everything with it. Logic has limits.This forum has argued over EENS, and used it to condemn debaters when it is the limits of reason and language which is at fault. The same type of argument can be applied to the proof of God's existence, yet that proof will not make one a Catholic without the gift of faith. A gift from God, not the gift of reason.  A strict reasoned legalistic interpretation can make every one a condemned sinner, because no one here is without fault or sin.

So it shouldn't be a total loss, you know you attract more flies with honey, than with vinegar.
tim
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#12
(03-31-2010, 03:36 PM)timoose Wrote: Isn't Mary from the root of Jesse, and isn't Jesus, her Son the Davidic King? If these are true she is the Davidic Queen Mother.  Didn't Mary observe all of the laws of Moses, and didn't Jesus as well? The current Jews aside, Jesus was a Jew par excellance.

WRC probably used "Jewish Mother" in the modern parlance to evoke the image of a dotting mother that makes chicken soup, speaks yiddish, and calls  her forty-nine year old son to make sure he is in bed at 10:00 pm.. He was being light hearted and descriptive. Sometimes here, we see bogey men where there are none. The heretics, schismatics, and apostates are out there, and very few are in the tank. Reason is very over rated. We are finite and can not solve everything with it. Logic has limits.This forum has argued over EENS, and used it to condemn debaters when it is the limits of reason and language which is at fault. The same type of argument can be applied to the proof of God's existence, yet that proof will not make one a Catholic without the gift of faith. A gift from God, not the gift of reason.  A strict reasoned legalistic interpretation can make every one a condemned sinner, because no one here is without fault or sin.

So it shouldn't be a total loss, you know you attract more flies with honey, than with vinegar.
tim

I don't think debaters trust enough in logic, so the blame is on them who fail to read and understand  the accounting, not right reason.

Your accounting of this is accurate.  Our Lady was not a modern Jew. So, I suppose this is a way of trying to condescend a point out to those supposed hoardes of anti-semitic goyim out there, that Jews are people too.  I think most of us know that modern Jews are people, and therefore in need of conversion to the true Faith.

Honey wouldn't hurt.
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#13
Only if the honey is real. We've had 40+ years of weakness masquerading as honey. Maybe we should try vinegar for a change.
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#14
I wasn't arguing with WRC about whether the BVM was actually Jewish.  Of course she was.  And I also was not faulting WRC personally for calling the BVM "our Jewish mother".  I was only exploring the idea of what we ought to be thinking when we think of the Jews now in relation to the actual faithful adherents to Judaism at the time when Jesus walked upon the Earth.   The word "Jew" is so loaded and has been so hijacked by so many that it probably is not a good idea to label the BVM "our Jewish mother".  No offense to WRC.  I am now assuming that the fellow in the other thread, who was leaving, was a Jew curious about the Church.
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#15
No, trevor is a Protestant.

I wouldn't apologize, anthem. You made perfectly good points. There are people who like to read into things what they want to.
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#16
Vince, you're absolutely correct. And I think debaters trust way way way too much in logic. We got along just fine before Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the reasoning of everything under the sun. Jesus told parables and He did not deliver reasoned lectures. Take a break it isn't reason which will fix this problem in the Church it will be the BVM. Can't you guys see that All of this debate is the fruit of Vatican II. What would make us think arguing among ourselves will solve it? Only Satan brings division, and these arguments have brought division..Arguing which proof for the existence of God, or how does Baptism of desire or of blood really work isn't our job. We receive what is taught and give assent. Leave the arguing to Cardinal Levada and the SSPX. We should expose the Faith charitably to those browsing and grazing here. Division does not help.

Quis is right. The Baltimore Catechism should be re-read by all of us, and we should adhere to exactly what is in it and use it as guide to the exposition of the Faith, not a launching point for debate. This unity will show those browsing and grazing the proper way to the Faith.
tim
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#17
(03-31-2010, 05:03 PM)timoose Wrote: Vince, you're absolutely correct. And I think debaters trust way way way too much in logic. We got along just fine before Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the reasoning of everything under the sun. Jesus told parables and He did not deliver reasoned lectures. Take a break it isn't reason which will fix this problem in the Church it will be the BVM. Can't you guys see that All of this debate is the fruit of Vatican II. What would make us think arguing among ourselves will solve it? Only Satan brings division, and these arguments have brought division..Arguing which proof for the existence of God, or how does Baptism of desire or of blood really work isn't our job. We receive what is taught and give assent. Leave the arguing to Cardinal Levada and the SSPX. We should expose the Faith charitably to those browsing and grazing here. Division does not help.

Quis is right. The Baltimore Catechism should be re-read by all of us, and we should adhere to exactly what is in it and use it as guide to the exposition of the Faith, not a launching point for debate. This unity will show those browsing and grazing the proper way to the Faith.
tim

We're in as much trouble as we're in because from the highest levels of he curia, to the Universities, the workplace and the household, logic has been studiously underrated and abandoned.  It is as much a result of the gutting of our education system by robber bird professors and theoreticians as it is by illuminist theologians and their execrable priestly byproducts who filtered into the parishes throughout the world.

We've seen a wholesale abandonment of philosophia perennis and that's a significant problem, as St. Pius X mentioned when he said that a rejection of scholasticism is the heart of mondernism.
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#18
Augustine are you a priest?
tim
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#19
(03-31-2010, 03:08 PM)stvincentferrer Wrote:
Quote:Don't let heretics with superiority complexes prevent you from saying something true!

Where does this come from?

I didn't mean you, if that's what you're wondering. I meant Rosalind Moss, who referred to Hebrew Catholics as "the chosen people within the chosen people."
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#20
(03-31-2010, 05:23 PM)timoose Wrote: Augustine are you a priest?
tim

Negative.
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