Re:Novus Ordo Masses
(04-12-2010, 11:32 AM)Ex_NO Wrote: So if B16 follows JP2 and worships at at Booodhist temple (like Mother Teresa did)...

That's something that has never made sense to me. These two (JPII and Mother Theresa) receive so much love and praise from the media for their (false) ecumenism. I have my own private opinions about JPII, but how did Mother Theresa justify such actions? Did she ever write explaining how she justified these things?
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(04-12-2010, 03:15 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 11:32 AM)Ex_NO Wrote: So if B16 follows JP2 and worships at at Booodhist temple (like Mother Teresa did)...

That's something that has never made sense to me. These two (JPII and Mother Theresa) receive so much love and praise from the media for their (false) ecumenism. I have my own private opinions about JPII, but how did Mother Theresa justify such actions? Did she ever write explaining how she justified these things?

Personally, I don't think it needs explanation.  A nun is not a pastor, they don't set or enforce doctrine, or become spiritual advisers, etc.  Her example was Catholic charity to all regardless of their religion.  She didn't have a doctorate in theology - what she was lacking in theology is not part of  the example we should follow.
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(04-12-2010, 03:15 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 11:32 AM)Ex_NO Wrote: So if B16 follows JP2 and worships at at Booodhist temple (like Mother Teresa did)...

That's something that has never made sense to me. These two (JPII and Mother Theresa) receive so much love and praise from the media for their (false) ecumenism. I have my own private opinions about JPII, but how did Mother Theresa justify such actions? Did she ever write explaining how she justified these things?

I read somewhere that it was Mother Teresa's reply to a similar question, was that her vocation was to help a christian be a better christian, a hindhu, a better hindhu etc.  I think it happened that hindhus would come to see her on their deathbed, and she would confirm them in their idolatry.  It is incredible sad.  It the past, missionaries would give their lives to bring the sacraments to pagans and idolaters.
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INPEFESS.

I googled and I got some info on EWTN  see link EWTN: Words by Mother Teresa

"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers."


Compare with:

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (# 9), Jan. 6, 1928: “For which reason, since charity is based on a complete and sincere faith, the disciples of Christ must be united principally  by the bond of one faith.”

Bible:
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(04-12-2010, 03:27 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 03:15 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 11:32 AM)Ex_NO Wrote: So if B16 follows JP2 and worships at at Booodhist temple (like Mother Teresa did)...

That's something that has never made sense to me. These two (JPII and Mother Theresa) receive so much love and praise from the media for their (false) ecumenism. I have my own private opinions about JPII, but how did Mother Theresa justify such actions? Did she ever write explaining how she justified these things?

Personally, I don't think it needs explanation. 

I disagree. If she is being put forth as someone Catholics are in no danger of emulating, then her actions should be exemplary. In short, her actions should be Catholic. Eating and drinking with heretics is one thing; trying to make them better heretics is another.

Quote:A nun is not a pastor, they don't set or enforce doctrine,
No, but they must follow it.

Quote:Her example was Catholic charity to all regardless of their religion. 

It was more than simply Catholic charity as I recall. It not charity to let someone feel comfortable in their heretical religion.

Quote:She didn't have a doctorate in theology - what she was lacking in theology is not part of  the example we should follow.

No, she had something better: grace. Obviously we don't want Hindus to become better Hindus; we want Hindus to become Catholics. If this was her "Catholic charity", that is not charity. I am not passing judgment on her, but how is it charitable to neglect the most important part of someone's soul: salvation?
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(04-12-2010, 03:15 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: That's something that has never made sense to me. These two (JPII and Mother Theresa) receive so much love and praise from the media for their (false) ecumenism. I have my own private opinions about JPII, but how did Mother Theresa justify such actions? Did she ever write explaining how she justified these things?

Edward W. Desmond: Friends of yours say you are disappointed that your work has not brought more conversions in this great Hindu nation.

Mother Teresa: Missionaries don’t think of that. They only want to proclaim the word of God. Numbers have nothing to do with it. But the people are putting prayer into action by coming and serving the people. Everywhere people are helping. There may not be a big conversion like that, but we do not know what is happening in the soul.

Edward W. Desmond: What do you think of Hinduism?

Mother Teresa: I love all religions, but I am in love with my own.

Edward W. Desmond: And they should love Jesus too?

Mother Teresa: Naturally, if they want peace, if they want joy, let them find Jesus. If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there. They come closer and closer to God. When they come closer, they have to choose.

(TIME, December 4, 1989)
http://www.time.com/time/reports/mothert...91204.html
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Faith is the invitation, Charity the "wedding" garment, without which we cannot enter Heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:3  “And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.”

Mother Teresa provided for the human body, but she prevented that human body from even considering the Catholic Faith, by insisting it remain and become a better ____________ (hindhu, booodhist, etc)


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Woosh.
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(04-12-2010, 09:22 AM)Nic Wrote: Again you state that you recognize flaws in the N.O. Mass, but you still demand attendance to an inferior form of worship. 

I am not demanding attendance at the NO Mass.  I think the TLM should be so widely available that everyone who wants to can go there.  In the meantime, each situation needs to be judged on a case by case basis.  A person might have access to a reverent NO.  A person might only have access to NO Masses that are severely spiritually damaging.  When people are faced with the choice of NO or nothing, they  need to pray and figure out what to do in their situation.  I can easily imagine situations where "nothing" is the right choice, but I object to your apparent position that it is *always* wrong to attend the NO. 

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(04-12-2010, 04:12 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 03:27 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 03:15 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-12-2010, 11:32 AM)Ex_NO Wrote: So if B16 follows JP2 and worships at at Booodhist temple (like Mother Teresa did)...

That's something that has never made sense to me. These two (JPII and Mother Theresa) receive so much love and praise from the media for their (false) ecumenism. I have my own private opinions about JPII, but how did Mother Theresa justify such actions? Did she ever write explaining how she justified these things?

Personally, I don't think it needs explanation. 

I disagree. If she is being put forth as someone Catholics are in no danger of emulating, then her actions should be exemplary. In short, her actions should be Catholic. Eating and drinking with heretics is one thing; trying to make them better heretics is another.

Quote:A nun is not a pastor, they don't set or enforce doctrine,
No, but they must follow it.

Quote:Her example was Catholic charity to all regardless of their religion. 

It was more than simply Catholic charity as I recall. It not charity to let someone feel comfortable in their heretical religion.

Quote:She didn't have a doctorate in theology - what she was lacking in theology is not part of  the example we should follow.

No, she had something better: grace. Obviously we don't want Hindus to become better Hindus; we want Hindus to become Catholics. If this was her "Catholic charity", that is not charity. I am not passing judgment on her, but how is it charitable to neglect the most important part of someone's soul: salvation?

You and Hitchens should hook up, dig up her corpse, and burn her body at the stake over a few cold ones because you both miss the point of her life in the same way.  :bonfire:

You're not happy she didn't do 100% on beating heretics and infidels, and he's not happy she didn't do a good job juggling finances.  She wasn't a Dominican Theologian or an accountant.  She was a simple nun who loved Jesus and did the best she could to witness for Him and the Church.  If she got something wrong or was innocently too ecumenical or made a wrong investment of donated funds, some of that is forgivable and we don't have to emulate that.

I've read two books of her writings.  There are things that make me shake my head, but no more so than things in say St. Hildegard of Bingen's and a bunch of other Saints.  We skip those parts and emulate the good parts of their lives; Saints are not perfect, neither are Blesseds.


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