Wild speculation on the 3rd Secret 'secrecy' please
#11
I can say this: the late Malachi Martin, who was shown the Third Secret of Fatima by a Cardinal in February 1960, said in an interview with Art Bell on July 13, 1998 (oddly enough, an anniversary of one of Mary's Fatima appearences) that what's in the Third Secret will affect not only Catholics, but the entire world, and will make the lines to the Confessional quite long on Saturday.

Incidentally, Pope Benedict's visit to Fatima on May 13 is not only the 93rd anniversary of the apparition, but it also falls on Ascension Thursday this year. Hmmm....

Here's the interview of Malachi Martin by Art Bell; it's in a few parts.



 
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#12
Adpatrem, google to Fatima.org Fr. Gruner in the last issue I received has said that is what he is about to do. He is going to Rome armed with TV programs to air that should catch their attention. He has already attempted to get in to speak at the commission in the past. The secret commission is common knowledge for lots of us here in the fishtank.
tim
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#13
In the same way the 2nd Secret predicted the beginning point of World War 2 ("a worse one will begin[comecara] in the reign
of Pius XI") the Third Secret of Fatima may have very well predicted the "comecara" starting point of  "the war that will set the
world on fire"  for the  "end of the 20th century".

If such "wild speculation" were correct, the Vatican would definitely have good reason to keep the Third Secret away from the
eyes of the enemies of the Church.  The reason being, that the prediction would have seemed to not have transpired in time.


In the reign of Pius XI and at his death it would not have been clear at all that World War II had begun. Hitler's soldiers entered
the Rhineland,  Sudetenland, and Austria without having to fight, there were no attempts to stop the German army. 
It wasn't until SEVEN MONTHS after Pius XI's death that actual physical "war" and fighting broke out with the invasion of
Poland. Historians place the official start of World War II in the reign of Pope Pius XII with the invasion of Poland seven months after Pius XI's death.  While it  seems that God indicates through Fatima that the start of world war II begins with the accumulation of earliar military
schemes carried out by Hitler.


If such wild speculation about the Third Secret predicting "the beginning" of a world changing conflict at the "end of the
20th century" were correct, it would mean that either:

A) that war has been averted,

B) that prophecy is tainted by human error or worse

or

C)  the 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia over Kosovo (or the war in Yugoslavia) is the unrealized
beginning point of a slow moving chain reaction that will end in tragedy for the world, and will
breakout into a Kosovo military conflict "round two" at some point after the International Court of Justice releases
it's ruling(late this year) on the legality of Kosovo's 2008 Unilateral Declaration of Independence.
77 nations in the UN General Assembly voted to send Serbia's case regarding Kosovo's Independence
to the ICJ. Russian President Medvedev may be itching to use Serbia-Kosovo as a launchpad to boost
his popularity and free himself from Putin's shadow, as the 2012 elections approach. 

Feel completely free to ignore such speculation.
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#14
What it always comes down to is the fact that the 3rd Secret was mandated to be released by heaven.  There appear to be differing opinions on whether it was explicitly Our Lady's wish for it to revealed specifically in 1960 or whether Sr. Lucy merely made that stipulation on her own in order that it may be best understood.  Either way, no matter how you look at it, this Secret is for the eyes and ears of the world and yet it has not been revealed.

Assuming that our Holy Father is indeed holy and a good man, I would think that we could come to very few conclusions then about what is happening here.  Fr. Malachi Martin stated several times in the Art Bell interviews that Pope John Paul II did not have control over the Church.  That would seem to be even more the case with Pope Benedict who is considerably more friendly to righting the ship back toward tradition.  It has been pointed out how many usurpers are present in the hierarchy of the Vatican.  Perhaps, in some way, Pope Benedict's hand continues to be forced.
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#15
(04-10-2010, 03:38 PM)Walty Wrote: What it always comes down to is the fact that the 3rd Secret was mandated to be released by heaven.  There appear to be differing opinions on whether it was explicitly Our Lady's wish for it to revealed specifically in 1960 or whether Sr. Lucy merely made that stipulation on her own in order that it may be best understood. 

I don't think there is any dispute to that, only lies from Cardinal Bertone.

Sr. Lucia wrote right on the envelope containing the secret that: "By express order of Our Lady, this envelope can only be opened in 1960..."
And in response to a question from Canon Barthas as to why 1960, Sr Lucia answered, "Because Our Lady wishes it so."

And according to Fr. Alonso, official Fatima archivist, Sr. Lucia made the Bishop of Leiria promise that it "would definitely be opened and read to the world either at her
death or in 1960, whichever would come first."  Sr. Lucia also remarked in response to this same question that it would be "clearer" in 1960.

See: The Secret Still Hidden, by Christopher Ferrara, p. 24.
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#16
juvenalis Wrote:I suspect extensive use of mental reservation, truth be told-- the statements I've heard are always quite oddly phrased and uncharacteristically 'loose' in style,

Excellent point.  What does this mean?  He is aware that the secret has not been revealed, and knows its contents.  He also knows (from his "regrets" statement) that it needs to be released.  So why doesn't he?

1.  He was at best misleading in 2000.  He wasn't the Pope and was following orders, being loyal, and using mental reservations.  But it was misleading.  Probably not a big factor since he can explain what I just said to the public.

2.  He is being blackmailed.  Maybe the KGB framed him in his youth with a homosexual situation.  Maybe there are old files of immoral acts that the Nazi had on him.  Maybe there is a fat dossier documenting how he "cleaned up" 100s of cases of homosexual molestations.  Maybe there are some interesting photos of JPII from his theater days.  And I don't accuse anyone of anything, this is just trying to make sense out of the Vaticans disobedience to the Lord's own Mother.  One thing I do know for sure, the Pope prayed to be protected from the wolves.

3.  We also know with about 99% certainty what the secret says.  Pope Pius XII let the beans spill on it.  Remember the "Our Lady of Fatima's concern" with the "suicide of the Church" from "altering her liturgy"?  So it condemns the N.O. Mess.  It probably also warns about Vat. II.  So let us say it is an out-and-out warning about a wicked council that will drag millions of souls to hell, and a warning about a Mess so disfigured, it will confuse the Faithful who will lose faith in the Real Presence and go join Charismatic heretical sects where they bark like dogs.  Now think for a second, how exactly to you release that message?  What will be the impact?  And consider, it would have been easy to release this warning in 1960 (there's that date), it is near impossible in 2010.  Get it?
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#17
post deleted by phantomfire707
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#18
(04-10-2010, 05:30 PM)James02 Wrote:
juvenalis Wrote:I suspect extensive use of mental reservation, truth be told-- the statements I've heard are always quite oddly phrased and uncharacteristically 'loose' in style,

Excellent point.  What does this mean?  He is aware that the secret has not been revealed, and knows its contents.  He also knows (from his "regrets" statement) that it needs to be released.  So why doesn't he?

1.  He was at best misleading in 2000.  He wasn't the Pope and was following orders, being loyal, and using mental reservations.  But it was misleading.  Probably not a big factor since he can explain what I just said to the public.

2.  He is being blackmailed.  Maybe the KGB framed him in his youth with a homosexual situation.  Maybe there are old files of immoral acts that the Nazi had on him.  Maybe there is a fat dossier documenting how he "cleaned up" 100s of cases of homosexual molestations.  Maybe there are some interesting photos of JPII from his theater days.  And I don't accuse anyone of anything, this is just trying to make sense out of the Vaticans disobedience to the Lord's own Mother.  One thing I do know for sure, the Pope prayed to be protected from the wolves.

3.  We also know with about 99% certainty what the secret says.  Pope Pius XII let the beans spill on it.  Remember the "Our Lady of Fatima's concern" with the "suicide of the Church" from "altering her liturgy"?  So it condemns the N.O. Mess.  It probably also warns about Vat. II.  So let us say it is an out-and-out warning about a wicked council that will drag millions of souls to hell, and a warning about a Mess so disfigured, it will confuse the Faithful who will lose faith in the Real Presence and go join Charismatic heretical sects where they bark like dogs.  Now think for a second, how exactly to you release that message?  What will be the impact?  And consider, it would have been easy to release this warning in 1960 (there's that date), it is near impossible in 2010.  Get it?

I like what you are saying with 3 (well, I agree....). 

And your bolded part, I think, is something we (or at least, I) forget, and overlook all too often...
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#19
(04-10-2010, 05:30 PM)James02 Wrote:
juvenalis Wrote:I suspect extensive use of mental reservation, truth be told-- the statements I've heard are always quite oddly phrased and uncharacteristically 'loose' in style,

3.  We also know with about 99% certainty what the secret says.  Pope Pius XII let the beans spill on it.  Remember the "Our Lady of Fatima's concern" with the "suicide of the Church" from "altering her liturgy"?  So it condemns the N.O. Mess.  It probably also warns about Vat. II. 

Actually, Pope Pius XII was only Msgr. Eugenio Pacelli at the time, and this was before Sr. Lucia committed it to paper or told anyone what it was.  So it isn't of direct relevance.

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#20
I don't know if this relates to the 3rd secret as I am woefully ignorant of the whole Fatima debate.

However, I have had a theory about a 'Bishop in White'.  I have hypothesized that the Bishop dressed in White was Abp. Lefebvre and the arrows were metaphorical ones, i.e. the sanctions against him.

Abp. Lefebvre was a Bishop and he was a Holy Ghost father, known for their distinctive white cassocks that they wore in the missionary field.  However, many friends tell me that the Fatima message about the Bishop dressed in white accords with St John Bosco's dream about the Pope being struck down, which goes against my theory.

BTW, I'm not SSPX [I go to the FSSP], but i do believe the Archbishop will be only father of V 2 who will one day be canonised.
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