Germany "Convicts" Bishop Williamson
#21
(04-16-2010, 03:14 PM)PeterII Wrote:
Quote:If someone comes to the US and questions 9/11, are we going to throw him in jail?

God, I wish they did, that would be so awesome.  There is nothing wrong with censorship, the problem is we censor the wrong things these days.  

AMEN!!!
Reply
#22
No one minds censorship. Censorship for Catholic ends is a good thing. For Jewish ends it's a bad thing,
Reply
#23
(04-16-2010, 03:17 PM)stvincentferrer Wrote: No one minds censorship. Censorship for Catholic ends is a good thing. For Jewish ends it's a bad thing,

But is this "for Jewish ends"?  Many people aren't opposed to Bishop Williamson "for Jewish ends."  They accept that it's simply a fact that Nazis intentionally murdered 6,000,000 Jews.  Many of the people opposed to Bishop Williamson or scandalized by him see this as a simple issue of truth and that Bishop Williamson is opposed to truth . . . for what end?  YES, there is a Jewish agenda here.  But a lot of people are completely disinterested and see this as censorship for the sake of sanity and against Naziism, not for the sake of Jewish interests. 

IF 6,000,000 Jews were intentionally murdered, THEN that's an historical fact, and the preservation of the memory of that fact, even by means of censorship, is a Catholic thing.  I assure you, there are more people involved in this debate than Bishop Williamson on one side and the Learned Elders of Zion on the other.  Millions of people -- and most historians -- who don't give a damn about pursuing Jewish ends accept the evidence given them for the claims of intentional extermination. 

And because a number of Holocaust revisionists *are* concerned to rehabilitate the Third Reich, there is also the question of neo-Nazi ends.  You doubt me?  Okay then, ask white supremacists and neo-Nazis if they believe in the Holocaust.  Many of them are revisionists. 
Reply
#24
Its not a fact. That's the plm. A fact can be proved. the holy number of the sacred six has been jumping around for a while now. That's not fact. what is a fact and what u can deny without any persecution or fine or hunting down is the incarnation and our lords crucifixion. How many deny that? How many get hunted for denying the center of history?
For u to claim the sacred six is a fact then by all means show the numbers. U can't neither can the jews.
Hence its not a fact. It can be an educated guess a maybe a close aproxamation but that's not a FACT.
Big difference
And yes u should be alowed to hold and say any opinion that is not contrary to the truth ie the Holy catholic Faith. Also of course libeland slander are of a different nature as they are attacks on people not a historical narrative.
Anyhoo
Reply
#25
(04-16-2010, 03:20 PM)Bonifacius Wrote:
(04-16-2010, 03:17 PM)stvincentferrer Wrote: No one minds censorship. Censorship for Catholic ends is a good thing. For Jewish ends it's a bad thing,

But is this "for Jewish ends"?  Many people aren't opposed to Bishop Williamson "for Jewish ends."  They accept that it's simply a fact that Nazis intentionally murdered 6,000,000 Jews.  Many of the people opposed to Bishop Williamson or scandalized by him see this as a simple issue of truth and that Bishop Williamson is opposed to truth . . . for what end?  YES, there is a Jewish agenda here.  But a lot of people are completely disinterested and see this as censorship for the sake of sanity and against Naziism, not for the sake of Jewish interests. 

IF 6,000,000 Jews were intentionally murdered, THEN that's an historical fact, and the preservation of the memory of that fact, even by means of censorship, is a Catholic thing.  I assure you, there are more people involved in this debate than Bishop Williamson on one side and the Learned Elders of Zion on the other.  Millions of people -- and most historians -- who don't give a damn about pursuing Jewish ends accept the evidence given them for the claims of intentional extermination. 

And because a number of Holocaust revisionists *are* concerned to rehabilitate the Third Reich, there is also the question of neo-Nazi ends.  You doubt me?  Okay then, ask white supremacists and neo-Nazis if they believe in the Holocaust.  Many of them are revisionists. 

This is a well-reasoned post, Bonifacius.  Thank you.
Reply
#26
But many nazis do belive in it and DO show pride in it. And DO want to do it. So your point is mute
Its like saying some Nazis belived in CHRIST which is true but so what?
Reply
#27
Hard core nazis are proud of killing Jews and think Hitler didn't go far enough.  They want to kill every Jew in the world.  Which is why it pisses me off when people try to link Catholics to Nazis or the Church's opposition to the Jewish religion to this insane racial bloodlust.

As far as the "Sacred Six", please explain to me how you originally had 6 million killed, with 4 million in Auswitz, and then the Auswitz number is officially lowered to 800,000, but the grand total is not reduced?  Remember JPII commenting on the 4 million who died there?  Well, if you drop the 6 million to 2.8 million, the holocaust kind of comes up short for victims bragging rights compared to Cambodia.  And the 2.8 number is too high also.  There was genocide, sure enough, but the number is probably around 2 million.  I guess if I say that in Germany I'll go to jail.
Reply
#28
(04-16-2010, 05:58 PM)James02 Wrote: Hard core nazis are proud of killing Jews and think Hitler didn't go far enough.  They want to kill every Jew in the world.  Which is why it pisses me off when people try to link Catholics to Nazis or the Church's opposition to the Jewish religion to this insane racial bloodlust.

As far as the "Sacred Six", please explain to me how you originally had 6 million killed, with 4 million in Auswitz, and then the Auswitz number is officially lowered to 800,000, but the grand total is not reduced?  Remember JPII commenting on the 4 million who died there?  Well, if you drop the 6 million to 2.8 million, the holocaust kind of comes up short for victims bragging rights compared to Cambodia.  And the 2.8 number is too high also.  There was genocide, sure enough, but the number is probably around 2 million.  I guess if I say that in Germany I'll go to jail.

Hold on.  First, many apologists for Hitler ARE Holocaust revisionists.  Do we agree on this or not? 
Reply
#29
(04-16-2010, 03:20 PM)Bonifacius Wrote:
(04-16-2010, 03:17 PM)stvincentferrer Wrote: No one minds censorship. Censorship for Catholic ends is a good thing. For Jewish ends it's a bad thing,

But a lot of people are completely disinterested and see this as censorship for the sake of sanity and against Naziism, not for the sake of Jewish interests. 

Any public figures you could name?
Reply
#30
(04-16-2010, 05:58 PM)James02 Wrote: Hard core nazis are proud of killing Jews and think Hitler didn't go far enough.  They want to kill every Jew in the world.  Which is why it pisses me off when people try to link Catholics to Nazis or the Church's opposition to the Jewish religion to this insane racial bloodlust.

As far as the "Sacred Six", please explain to me how you originally had 6 million killed, with 4 million in Auswitz, and then the Auswitz number is officially lowered to 800,000, but the grand total is not reduced?  Remember JPII commenting on the 4 million who died there?  Well, if you drop the 6 million to 2.8 million, the holocaust kind of comes up short for victims bragging rights compared to Cambodia.  And the 2.8 number is too high also.  There was genocide, sure enough, but the number is probably around 2 million.  I guess if I say that in Germany I'll go to jail.

For one thing, most of those who claim that 6,000,000 were killed DID NOT use the figure 4,000,000 for Auschwitz.  That number was used by official Communis authorities and may be used by Poles today.  But ethnicity was not considered in that number  -- that was meant to cover victims of all nationalities.  Those who defend the 6,000,000 number DO NOT say that 4,000,000 Jews died at Auschwitz.  SOME people still talk about the 4,000,000 number.  But they are not the professional historians.  Yes, there is room to dispute numbers.  But EVEN IF only 800,000 Jews died at Auschwitz, that still doesn't prove Bishop Williamson's case 1.) denying the use of gas chambers, 2.) his figure of 300,000 Jewish victims total, and 3.) denying the intentionality of genocide.  If you go to Germany and say, "Only 800,000 Jews died at Auschwitz," I doubt you'll be prosecuted.  If you deny the huge numbers who perished in shootings and at OTHER camps, then I bet you'd run into trouble.  

See here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Jews and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_c...Death_toll   The number 6,000,000 is not based on a 4,000,000 count at Auschwitz.  Period.  It is based on much, much smaller estimates for that particular camp. 
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)