RELICS: The Stone of Scone, Jacob's Pillow
oh i'm a rabid dogmatist? thanks for the compliment. goes well with

Well, I'll make an exception for you, Devoted.

You do tend to be straight with me.

Can you forgive my excess?

of course.

Thank you.

I'll watch my p's and q's; but I expect others to do so also.

We are adults, after all.

no worries.
sip sip
(04-22-2010, 12:14 PM)No3456 Wrote:  Except for Dius, you're "rabid" dogmatists.

Actually, if you read the theological discussions, I'm probably more rabid than most people here.  On the other hand, I realize beating non-Catholics over the head with dogma is about as useful as the Evangelicals who beat people over the head with Scripture.

Abp. Sheen used to say people hated the Church because they didn't understand the Church and had heard only lies.  I tend to agree.  I've found if I give (or try to give) an explanation for something rather than demand belief from a non-believer, it works better both out of non-believers respecting the Church and also convincing them of the truth.  I only require that questions be asked sincerely and respectfully.

So, in return 3456, I understand why you are angry and frustrated being pelted with Church teaching that you, frankly, have no reason to accept since you don't accept the Faith.  On the other hand, I have to ask you to consider two things: 1) be respectful when talking about the Church, at least as goes to civility and manners, 2) realize the Catholic Church is not the people in it but rather the Faith and teachings; people will always let us down, Christ and His Church do not.


I wouldn't be here if not for some tact, Quis.

Getting rabid serves no purpose in finding harmony.


(04-22-2010, 11:56 AM)No3456 Wrote:
(04-22-2010, 11:51 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: i ask questions just like you can ask me. no plm. whats wrong with that. i have contempt for all false religions and heresies. period. not for you as a person. your some comic relief in here. but id wish we could get into the nitty gritty of the outer space stuff. anyway
as for me i'm a catholic. i'm a sinner. and i'm doing my all to not get damned. for me the salvation of me wee boys soul is the supreme law all else is secondary. all is for him.

Oh, so you're a Catholic just so you [PERSONALLY] won't get damned, eh?

Never mind, the rest of humanity can be dysinformed, deceived, lied to and tricked; but that's no concern of yours?

Truth is not an issue for you?  ONLY DOGMA?

I run into this self-serving mode of Christiandom all the time, just as much in Protestant Churches, believe me.

Personal salvation is everything; and the rest of Creation can just go to Hell.

I don't buy it.


I don't buy it either, neither does the Church, and that's not what DK is saying.  It is obvious from Scripture, Tradition, and Church teaching that to care about one's self and "to hell with everyone else" is a sure path to damnation because we can't save ourselves at the expense of others; that's not how it works.

Also, our immortal souls are more important than saving the spotted owl.  So, it's a question of priorities and such.  And certainly, Charity begins at home, so we have to concentrate our efforts there.  Letting our children starve or grow up without morals to fighting Monsanto with every fiber of our being and all our resources is not prudent and goes against both common sense and what the Church teaches.

In the final examination, if everyone in the world were convinced just to try to follow the 10 Commandments let alone anything else, the world would be a lot better off.  And if everyone were to try to follow Church teaching, the world would be past better off to at least tolerable.  So, the root of the problem isn't Monsanto.  There will always be Monsantos as long as people choose not to behave, at least with regard to the Natural Law.  It seems to me the real solution isn't picketing Monsanto, but to convert people's hearts so they choose good over evil, people over profits, etc.

The more moral noble people around, the less chance of Monsanto, Hitler, Stalin, etc., and the more people who will speak up and resist when these forces arise.  Evil preys on evil - these things get their power because of our own spiritual apathy, greed, jealousy of others, laziness, etc.

Assuming your charges against Monsanto, etc., are correct, if farmers didn't want to be lazy or make more money by using roundup and genetically modified seed, Monsanto wouldn't get the money and power.  Monsanto is only successful because of lack of virtue and such in those who choose to use that stuff instead of work harder.

Though, I should be clear: that's not an aspersion on farmers - it may be they have a necessary reason, and it may be that Roundup is OK.  I'm using your example to make a point to you even though I don't necessarily agree with you on Monsanto.

The point is this: Monsanto is just a symptom; the disease is spiritual.  Treating the symptom will make us feel good for 10-15 years until the next Monsanto comes along, but that's it.  If people didn't buy roundup, there would be no Monsantos, and people want roundup because it makes their life easier, more lucrative, etc., not because it is a noble or moral thing to want that would end starvation.


I agree completely.

If nobody complained about Hitler, he never would have been defeated.

If nobody complains about Monsanto, they will profiteer this planet to death.

I think we need to know about this, to respond effectively.

That's all.

In spirit, some battles are worth fighting.  I think planet-killing is worth the effort to fend off.


hitler wasnt defeated because people complained about him. most didn't. the brits loathed a confrontation thouhg the smart ones knew it was inevitable. nazi germany wasn't complained about. when it was it was for the wrong reasons ie for re arming and messing with brit interests how the nazis treated Catholics or jews or opposition never got into it. they were defeated because they as a power could not be allowed to exists at the expense of other powers. the brits the russians and the amaricans.

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