RELICS: The Stone of Scone, Jacob's Pillow
#51
(04-22-2010, 01:00 PM)No3456 Wrote: In spirit, some battles are worth fighting.  I think planet-killing is worth the effort to fend off.

Sure, but for the right reasons.  If the only reason you get people to fend off planet-killing is to save their own (and their children's) hides, then it's an empty victory because it isn't being fought out of virtue but out of self-concern.  The next self concern (real or imagined) might be to conquer and level another country and then we become Hitler and Stalin and Israel.  America obviously is already headed in that direction if not there already, at least in mindset.

If people fight to fend off planet-killing because we are stewards of the Earth and it is an offense to God to kill the planet for money, that's something altogether different.  They will fight for things according to virtue and God and Church teaching.

It may be tolerable to just do the right thing, but problems are only solved by doing the right thing for the right reasons.  An atheist tree-hugger might do the right thing by fighting against Monsanto today, but they will do the wrong thing tomorrow when they support euthanasia to reduce the population for the "good of the planet" because their value system is worthless and their morality skewed.

Reply
#52
Devoted Knuckles said:
hitler wasnt defeated because people complained about him. most didn't. the brits loathed a confrontation thouhg the smart ones knew it was inevitable. nazi germany wasn't complained about. when it was it was for the wrong reasons ie for re arming and messing with brit interests how the nazis treated Catholics or jews or opposition never got into it. they were defeated because they as a power could not be allowed to exists at the expense of other powers. the brits the russians and the amaricans.

Wow!  So much for honest intentions, eh?  ... I have photographs in my collections of Hitler leaving Catholic Church services, and being "heiled" by Catholic Church leaders.  I also have a photo of the current Pope when he was a Hitler Youth member.  So, the Catholic Church's simple acceptance of Fascism is a problem for me.  This makes me uncomfortable, and I wonder, where the Catholic martyrs were in that decade.

Quis said:
If people fight to fend off planet-killing because we are stewards of the Earth and it is an offense to God to kill the planet for money, that's something altogether different.  They will fight for things according to virtue and God and Church teaching

This is my point.  God's planet is Holy and Sacred.  And we must respect and defend HIS work, not neglect and take it for granted.


Emily
Reply
#53
(04-22-2010, 02:01 PM)No3456 Wrote: Wow!  So much for honest intentions, eh?  ... I have photographs in my collections of Hitler leaving Catholic Church services, and being "heiled" by Catholic Church leaders.  I also have a photo of the current Pope when he was a Hitler Youth member.  So, the Catholic Church's simple acceptance of Fascism is a problem for me.  This makes me uncomfortable, and I wonder, where the Catholic martyrs were in that decade.

You will not find statements on whether forms of government are just or not in Scripture.  Christ said to render to Caesar what is Caesar's - rarely are forms of government completely flawed, more often it is the people in them.

The fact that Hitler went to a Catholic Church, a Church in which he didn't believe and obey,  is no more relevant than the fact that the KKK was filled with Protestants.  Nothing in Catholic teaching supported Hitler, and nothing in (mainstream) Protestantism supports the KKK.

As far as the current Pope, like many, he was forced to join.  Do you have a picture of him leaving the army against orders as well?


What the Churchsaid to Hitler is contained here.  It was the only encyclical issued in German instead of Latin because the Pope wanted everyone in Germany to read it, including Hitler:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11BRENN.HTM

On the Church and the German Reich

MIT BRENNENDER SORGE

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON THE CHURCH AND THE GERMAN REICH MARCH 14, 1937


And as far as martyrs go, I wonder why you go after the Catholic Church.  What about the Lutherans?  The Orthodox? Etc.?

As far as religions go, the Catholic Church did more to combat Hitler and National Socialism than any other religion.  And probably more Catholics and Orthodox died fighting against Hitler and in Concentration Camps in WW2 than any other religion except for the Jews who were exterminated.

Where were the Anglicans?  Did they hide Jews in their convents?  The Lutherans?  Where were their statements?

Quote:Quis said:
If people fight to fend off planet-killing because we are stewards of the Earth and it is an offense to God to kill the planet for money, that's something altogether different.  They will fight for things according to virtue and God and Church teaching

This is my point.  God's planet is Holy and Sacred.  And we must respect and defend HIS work, not neglect and take it for granted.

But that's not your point.  The reason we respect and defend His work is out of love for Him and as a condition for our salvation, a concern which you implied was selfish.

The earth is not holy and sacred; it is a gift given to man by God.  If dad gives us a car, we should show appreciation for the gift by taking care of it, not because the car is sacred.
Reply
#54

The earth is not holy and sacred; it is a gift given to man by God.  If dad gives us a car, we should show appreciation for the gift by taking care of it, not because the car is sacred.

A car is just a car, here today in the junkyard tomorrow.

God's work is not Holy and Sacred to us?

Wow.
Reply
#55
(04-22-2010, 02:46 PM)No3456 Wrote: The earth is not holy and sacred; it is a gift given to man by God.  If dad gives us a car, we should show appreciation for the gift by taking care of it, not because the car is sacred.

A car is just a car, here today in the junkyard tomorrow.

God's work is not Holy and Sacred to us?

Wow.

It is an inanimate object that we have dominion over, just like a car or a rock.

Quote:6 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.  And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth. 29 And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: 30 And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done.

It is a neutral object; there is nothing inherently holy or unholy about it.
Reply
#56

So, it's fine to TRASH IT?

If I did THAT to my parents' house, they would not be amused.

There's such a thing as "Respect your father and Mother."  And respecting our Earthly Home, comes in that category since this is a House built by our Heavenly Father.



Emily
Reply
#57
Who's saying anything about trashing?
What's your plm? Is it reading comprehension?
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)