Why the Bishops hate Latin
#21
(04-20-2010, 03:22 PM)mike6240 Wrote: The key is being exposed to the language.  If the laity and the clergy are never exposed to Latin then it will be intimidating, foreign and will make no sense to them of what's being said or what's going on.  Why in the world would they want to say (or hear) Mass in Latin when a vernacular option is offered?

That was the point, why Vatican II changed the language to vernacular: either the bishops and the faithful wanted that everybody could understand the Liturgy. Neither the mistranslations, not the liturgical committees changing Christ's Sacrifice to the celebration of the human success was intended (this later probably would infect even the TLM if that would be the majority) but the desire for understanding was honest goal.

From English point of view the Latins words is easy to pick up, since 70% of the words in the dictionary has Latin root. Same is true in even deeper level for the Romance languages (Spanish, French, Italian). For other parts of the word, for Germans, Slavs, Africans, Chinese, Japanese that Latin is much more complicated; and the Catholic Church is for everyone, not only for a few nations.
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#22
I've started teaching Latin one night a week at our FSSP church, to a class of about a half-dozen adults mostly in their 30s.  It's been pretty slow so far; one night a week is a hard way to learn something, and we spend a lot of time catching up on what we forgot since last week.  We have a lot of homeschoolers, though, and some are interested in bringing their kids to a Latin class, so it might develop into a daily thing this fall.

I think the people who hate Latin (bishops or otherwise)  hate it for the same reason they hate veils, people who kneel for Communion, and so on.  It represents a version of the Church that they thought was dead and buried when they invented their new version forty years ago.  To hear people saying Mass in Latin and asking for it now---in greater numbers all the time---must be like Poe's telltale heart beating beneath the sacristy to them.
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#23
I,ve been learning Latin on my own using the Latina Christiana series. Im doing fine with the vocabulary but the grammar , oh boy, too many endings. If its called a Catholic school Latin should be taught from grades 1-12 its the language of the church,
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#24
glglas the church was in far better shape when the people "supposedly" didn't know what was being said. First of all the only thing the people actually need to know is that the priest is up there at the altar interceding (as an alter Christus) with Almighty God. That is why many said the Rosary during mass. He is our representative before GOD (the Protestants hate this) we can unite with him , we can follow along also with our missal (believe me im no great latinist )but a person would a small bit of in intelligence can follow the mass. THe priest must learn Christian Latin , if hes a scholarly type he can go beyond that . The scholarly guy will be the ones the diocese and Vatican  go for understanding the original writings of the fathers of the church and the churchs great intellectual patrimony which was mostly written in Latin.  Aside from the Mass the priest hasplenty of opportunities to teach the faithful in whatever part of the world a grasp of the faith in their vernacular language. We must keep the mass under the leadership of Peter, we dont need English masses, Spanish, Czech, Polish, Chinese Japanese, Congolese etc etc etc this is not a liturgy at the Tower of Babel. My dad said in WW2 it was great to see all these people on different South Sea island lands going to the same mass said at ROME. The same was true in Europe, we were more CATHOLIC then now we are just one of the Christian sects most people believe. I could go on and on i hope you get what i mean.
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#25
When I was a kid we just learned the short phrases and gradually a few of the regular prayers in the younger grades, but it certainly provided a foundation. The boys took Latin for altar boys from about fourth grade, i think.  It not only was good for their brains, the fact that it was somethig special for them (not allowed to girls) at that time when girls are growing faster, it helped them a lot.  In those days sex-ed did not start until 7th grade and so you had that lag when boys and girls were just beginning to separate and the boys feeling awkward while the girls tended to excel in academics.  The boys had time in their Latin class so that even the non-athletic boys could excel, and I also think that the continuous connection as a group may have provided protection against weak priests because if a priest got "queer" with them, they could pick up on it and talk among themselves and tell their parents more easily.

Frankly, I do remember one of my brothers refusing to have anything to do with a certain seminarian and as soon as word got out that some boys did not want to attend practice with him, the pastor was called and that seminarian was gone. 

You can criticize the bishops, but in the end it is the people at the parish level who always have to have an eye out, anyway, and the Latin classes were a good way for the boys and men to keep an eye out for trouble in the parish.
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#26
(04-19-2010, 08:27 PM)littlerose Wrote: Latin used to be taught in high school and altar boys learned it from the very beginning.

When I was in hihgh school most college-bound students, including non-Catholics, had to take Latin.  That included Virgil and the Roman writers, non-liturgical Latin.

Latin was a course offered at my old PUBLIC High School until at least 1997.....I now regret that I never signed up for it!
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#27
Its our langage, its the unifier that made the old mass the same no matter where it was, its our great, honorable, and challenging duty to keep it alive, and its a beautiful soft langage not as harsh on the ears as say japanese or polish.  not that the languages are bad, latin just rolls along better and is more pleasing to the ear.

signed Jeremy
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#28
(04-22-2010, 05:04 AM)churchesoffortwayne Wrote: Its our langage, its the unifier that made the old mass the same no matter where it was, its our great, honorable, and challenging duty to keep it alive, and its a beautiful soft langage not as harsh on the ears as say japanese or polish.  not that the languages are bad, latin just rolls along better and is more pleasing to the ear.

signed Jeremy

For long time there was around here a local restaurant owned by native Greek people. Yheu talked to each other in Greek. It was significantly more melodic, soft than the Latin. I always enjoyed listening to them.

Unfortunately God wanted us intellect, understanding and require us to use it. The language is not only to our ears but also to our emotions and intellect. Only a native language serves all three requirement. It is not an accident that English masses still have big crowd, and the Latin masses even pulling people from significantly wider areas are half empty. As for the Mass we need Christ and the the reverence toward Him, the language or rite is secondary.
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#29
You do not understand the significance of latin then glgas, sure its harder but the people at a tridentine mass are there because they want to, they put more of it into it and love it for what it is, not like the novas ordo where people dont show respect in dress and action like they are there just to do a weekly drugery dutie.

Long live the Tridentine mass even if I will never memorize the whole thing, dont need to to know its validity, and the sacred words being spoken,  I would be happy myself if they would just from time to time do a mix of latin and english like ewtn daily mass, and keep with the true intent of the original words of the documents, giving the old precedence over the new and whimsical.

signed Jeremy L keeper of history of the Churches of Fort Wayne
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#30
Don't know if this is on topic or not, but I think there's a difference between hating Latin and hating the Tridentine mass. Engaging the mind with the vernacular is one thing.  Making certain it is engaged by the truth that the mass is a sacrifice is quite another.  We could easily say the Tridentine mass in the vernacular. 

In fact, is there anyone here who'd rather assist at a Novus Ordo mass in Latin than at a Tridentine mass in the vernacular?
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