How to convert her??
(04-23-2010, 09:29 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
Quote: You really can't compare non-Catholic boys with traditional Catholics, especially ones who mostly went to trad schools or were home-schooled. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there's a world of difference between the two.

If that were true, you wouldn't have to worry so much about their income potential, which is increasingly undercut since education and increasingly, employment opportunities tend to favor women.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. My point is that boys in traditional Catholic schools might suffer a disadvantage which is different from ones in public schools: namely, their parents don't prepare them to survive in the real world. Whether or not they face discrimination in the workplace is irrelevent because in many cases they lack the education for a lucrative career, anyway. Boys in public schools who are taught ideologies and liberalism are beside the point, because that's not who we're discussing.

And my other point was that I don't think women have as many advantages as you think. I'm a little tired of this "let's blame spoiled women for all our problems" type rant. Guess what: I'm in the workplace, too, and it's not any easier for me than guys my age, Catholic or not.

Edited to add: I didn't read the whole article, but I will get around to it, and I'm curious why you think boys are less motivated than girls? Because I noticed the exact same thing at my trad highschool. The boys goofed off while many of the girls (myself included) prepared for college. However, it certainly wasn't my fault that they were goofing off.
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(04-23-2010, 10:11 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(04-23-2010, 09:29 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
Quote: You really can't compare non-Catholic boys with traditional Catholics, especially ones who mostly went to trad schools or were home-schooled. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there's a world of difference between the two.

If that were true, you wouldn't have to worry so much about their income potential, which is increasingly undercut since education and increasingly, employment opportunities tend to favor women.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. My point is that boys in traditional Catholic schools might suffer a disadvantage which is different from ones in public schools: namely, their parents don't prepare them to survive in the real world. Whether or not they face discrimination in the workplace is irrelevent because in many cases they lack the education for a lucrative career, anyway. Boys in public schools who are taught ideologies and liberalism are beside the point, because that's not who we're discussing.

And my other point was that I don't think women have as many advantages as you think. I'm a little tired of this "let's blame spoiled women for all our problems" type rant. Guess what: I'm in the workplace, too, and it's not any easier for me than guys my age, Catholic or not.

Edited to add: I didn't read the whole article, but I will get around to it, and I'm curious why you think boys are less motivated than girls? Because I noticed the exact same thing at my trad highschool. The boys goofed off while many of the girls (myself included) prepared for college. However, it certainly wasn't my fault that they were goofing off.

I haven't noticed this, either, women having an advantage in the work world. Most top-paying fields, from what I can see, are still dominated by men -- not because of sexism, but because men are more interested in those fields than women. Most of the women I've known either ended up in teaching or nursing, both respectable professions but neither particularly well-paid, usually.
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(04-23-2010, 11:59 AM)James02 Wrote: Ggreg,
The other problem with Trad Catholics is that they think college is for only two reasons: pre-Law or priesthood.  There seems to be a scorn for Accounting or Engineering.  That is perhaps not fair, but the general view is that you should take 4 years of Liberal Arts, and then move on to engineering (another 4 years).  Might be nice if you have the money.

Anyhow, mind giving us some advise on how you made it work?  I am looking at something similar in the engineering field -- regulatory compliance.  Boring secretary crap that make me want to open my wrists, but it pays well.  And there is a glaring need for canned software that prints the forms and stores the completed forms for 5 years.  You would be surprised at how many oil companies are still run via Excel spreadsheets.   So what exactly do you provide for the banks, if you don't mind telling?  And the big question, how do you make the sale?

And for you little youngins out there (HM), I remember advise given out by Rush Limbaugh about 20 years ago.  He advised to surround yourself with positive successful people.  And to bombard successful people with questions, and ignore negative whiners.  Good advise that I have followed.

Heck yeah engineering.  Big Grin 
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(04-23-2010, 11:59 AM)James02 Wrote: Ggreg,
The other problem with Trad Catholics is that they think college is for only two reasons: pre-Law or priesthood.  There seems to be a scorn for Accounting or Engineering.  That is perhaps not fair, but the general view is that you should take 4 years of Liberal Arts, and then move on to engineering (another 4 years).  Might be nice if you have the money.

Anyhow, mind giving us some advise on how you made it work?  I am looking at something similar in the engineering field -- regulatory compliance.  Boring secretary crap that make me want to open my wrists, but it pays well.  And there is a glaring need for canned software that prints the forms and stores the completed forms for 5 years.  You would be surprised at how many oil companies are still run via Excel spreadsheets.   So what exactly do you provide for the banks, if you don't mind telling?  And the big question, how do you make the sale?

And for you little youngins out there (HM), I remember advise given out by Rush Limbaugh about 20 years ago.  He advised to surround yourself with positive successful people.  And to bombard successful people with questions, and ignore negative whiners.  Good advise that I have followed.

And, I would eat up advice from the older folks on here about job future, and whatnot.  I'll be graduating next year, and going into some field of electrical engineering.  Any advice to be given will be greatly appreciated, especially since my family background is factory (my grandfathers), and public service (parents). 

I do have an internship at a power plant, though, this summer.  And am definitely excited.  Big Grin  If necessary, I can spin off a thread.
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(04-23-2010, 10:11 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(04-23-2010, 09:29 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
Quote: You really can't compare non-Catholic boys with traditional Catholics, especially ones who mostly went to trad schools or were home-schooled. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there's a world of difference between the two.

If that were true, you wouldn't have to worry so much about their income potential, which is increasingly undercut since education and increasingly, employment opportunities tend to favor women.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. My point is that boys in traditional Catholic schools might suffer a disadvantage which is different from ones in public schools: namely, their parents don't prepare them to survive in the real world. Whether or not they face discrimination in the workplace is irrelevent because in many cases they lack the education for a lucrative career, anyway. Boys in public schools who are taught ideologies and liberalism are beside the point, because that's not who we're discussing.

And my other point was that I don't think women have as many advantages as you think. I'm a little tired of this "let's blame spoiled women for all our problems" type rant. Guess what: I'm in the workplace, too, and it's not any easier for me than guys my age, Catholic or not.

Edited to add: I didn't read the whole article, but I will get around to it, and I'm curious why you think boys are less motivated than girls? Because I noticed the exact same thing at my trad highschool. The boys goofed off while many of the girls (myself included) prepared for college. However, it certainly wasn't my fault that they were goofing off.

Boys, whether they're traditional or not have to swim in the same polluted ocean, and it's an ocean polluted by modernity with all that entails, even traditional boys have to deal with the scourge of feminism, and they'll be likely fairly confused about it.

There is a apparently a lot of divorce even at the chapel, so the modern problems with boys aren't going to be TOO appreciably different from the global experience of boys in general, getting swept under the rug.

Btw, If women are doing significantly better in school, they're going to enjoy better salaries as a result of better education and increasingly males are finding themselves outside of that cycle and working menial jobs or, if they're motivated, starting businesses.  It might be true that men excel in the maths, sciences and engineering, but women are becoming increasingly prominent in business, sales and other traditionally male-dominated areas.  Unfortunately, for most modern "families", the wives are not at the household... they're following a carreer.

Of course, I think I agree with you about traditional boys not getting educated, but it's harder to say because Ithink the traditional world is much wider than chapels and homeschool communiities.  I did once hear an SSPX guy complain about homeschooling, but then, Harvard wants homeschool kids. But I'm guessing that a lot of traditional kids tend to avoid college, partly because, they're concentrated in areas which don't provide many opportunities for education, like St. Mary's in Kansas as ggreg pointed out above.

Anyhow, I've heard the complaint that traditional kids aren't too keen on professional development, but I can't really think of anyone off hand that would be applicable to.  Not a lot of experience of exclusively trad villages here.

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Boys in traditional families who are homeschooled or go to Catholic school, who were raised by stay-home moms, are probably less affected by feminism than any other social group.
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(04-24-2010, 03:12 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: Boys in traditional families who are homeschooled or go to Catholic school, who were raised by stay-home moms, are probably less affected by feminism than any other social group.

It's hard to get away from it either way and you see that spirit in the chapels and the usual traditional haunts as well, and if you want to marry someone who's traditional, you'll have to deal with that and some of the other issues as well.
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(04-26-2010, 06:45 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(04-24-2010, 03:12 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: Boys in traditional families who are homeschooled or go to Catholic school, who were raised by stay-home moms, are probably less affected by feminism than any other social group.

It's hard to get away from it either way and you see that spirit in the chapels and the usual traditional haunts as well, and if you want to marry someone who's traditional, you'll have to deal with that and some of the other issues as well.

Deal with what? I have a hard time following your posts. Are you disagreeing with me? Are you saying I'm going to have to deal with traditional guys being less affected by feminism than most other people? Can you explain what you mean? Because I stand by my original point, and don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. If boys in traditional families are less affected by feminism than, say, your typical non-Catholic boy going to a public school, isn't that a good thing? To make the claim that they're affected in the same way is absurd.
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