Feelings about Luther and Lutheranism
#1
Don't try to agree with me,if you don't agree that's good,but if you find yourself agreeing that great.though I am looking for a discussion/Debate,or something between the two

My position:Martin Luther is a damned heretic who broke his vow of Chastity which wasn't made to a church but to God himself,thus should be regardless of religious beliefs.I think he should be ressurected to pay for his crimes and be shown the purgatory he wrote so passionately against,a redemption of the Idiotic.He made a few points I agree with,but the mass of it I whole heartly Distain,He is a Vile man who thought Anarchy in the church,devoid of Hiarchy.He paved the ways to so many heresies,he was prideful and mentally sick.Though I do appraise him for at least keeping some orthodoxy within his madness.He is still not excused for his doctrine of Faith Alone,that destroyed morality on the large part.He even dragged men through the mud who didn't agree with him,most of his charges were emotional and quite dubious.

Lutheranism is a Attempt at the Catholic faith that failed,liken alot to Anglicanism exept no head.It brought disorder among the lands and caused hatred to spread.He revived the Heresies of Peter and Henry of the 11th century (They are precursors to protestantism,Refuted by St.Bernard).Lutheranism claims the belief in the real pressence but how it is handled is blasphemous,recieving the body yet rejecting the Sacrifice,Although it has always been called the Sacrifice they deemed it unacceptable.They hold the faith of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura which are incomplete and will lead many into hell because they believe they do not need to confess their sins.Though I find it ironic that many Lutheran churches DOES  have Confession.I consider them Anglican of Gemany,Or Germanican.I wish the Lutheran movement never happened and I find no good coming from it.
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#2
In total agreement, no arguments here.
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#3
Luther was a Rosicrucian.
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#4
(04-20-2010, 09:34 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Luther was a Rosicrucian.

I can't see that,maybe you could elaberate a bit.
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#5
In short I think Martin Luther gets way too much play, usually from Catholics who know as much about the Reformation as Protestants (which is to say, next to nothing).

St.Ambrose Wrote:My position:Martin Luther is a damned heretic

A heretic, sure. Yet it's not for you to presume that Luther went to hell.

Quote:he was ... mentally sick

In what manner?

Quote:Though I do appraise him for at least keeping some orthodoxy within his madness.

So Luther is not only "mentally sick," but actually mad? Disagree with his conclusions if you will, but his thought and writings are not that of a madman.

Quote:Lutheranism is a Attempt at the Catholic faith

It is?!

Quote:(They are precursors to protestantism

Heaven save us from metahistory.
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#6
(04-20-2010, 09:44 PM)Credo Wrote: In short I think Martin Luther gets way too much play, usually from Catholics who know as much about the Reformation as Protestants (which is to say, next to nothing).

St.Ambrose Wrote:My position:Martin Luther is a damned heretic

A heretic, sure. Yet it's not for you to presume that Luther went to hell.

Quote:he was ... mentally sick

In what manner?

Quote:Though I do appraise him for at least keeping some orthodoxy within his madness.

So Luther is not only "mentally sick," but actually mad? Disagree with his conclusions if you will, but his thought and writings are not that of a madman.

Quote:Lutheranism is a Attempt at the Catholic faith

It is?!

Quote:(They are precursors to protestantism

Heaven save us from metahistory.

Well I thank you for not pointing out my spelling mistake like appraise.

Well if he not damned then surely Judas must not be either,since Luther died in his heresy and excommunication.
Whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven-thous he is bound outside the church

Yes he is Mentally ill,He makes many Manic Ramblings that would make me look completely sane.He is mental as much as he was not completely healthy mentally,he was known for "Freak outs" about God,in so much as he deemed God cruel on one hand and a God of no justice,Thus if he was not Mentally ill he is surely a evil evil man.

Yes he is mad,he ranted about demons in Germany,in such a way that he brought Pagan faith into his own preaching

Have you ever seen a Lutheran "mass"? It is the mass without mention of the Sacrifice,it looks like a mass,it sounds like a mass it must be a mass....or a form of it.They even hold confessionals,and what looks like priests.They are surely a Twisted form of Catholic faith

And the precursors of Protestantism Peter and henry of the 11h century is not metaphysics but pure written Secular History.

Thank you for what your doing.This is much appreciated
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#7
Credo

Regarding this quote

"A heretic, sure. Yet it's not for you to presume that Luther went to hell. "

Luther was given years to work with the Church and deny his heresies.  When he failed to do that, he was officially declared a heretic of the Church.  This is a statement from the Church that he is outside her and will go to hell, unless restored before death.  Unfortunately, official declarations like that have penalties that are "reserved" to the Holy See or to a very high designee, such as a Bishop, which means that if he wanted to confess, some sins (like his) can only be forgiven by the Holy See or His Designee.  It is in canon law.  There are several sins that cannot be forgiven by a priest, such as destroying a Church or the consecrated items, etc.  A sincere act of contrition does not suffice in these cases.  Since it is rather well known that Luther died without being restored through confession to a higher prelate, it is very safe for a Catholic to say that he is in hell.  It is not presumption at all, it actually shows obedience to the Church and her precepts. 


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#8
(04-20-2010, 09:27 PM)St.Ambrose Wrote: Lutheranism is a Attempt at the Catholic faith that failed,liken alot to Anglicanism exept no head.It brought disorder among the lands and caused hatred to spread.He revived the Heresies of Peter and Henry of the 11th century (They are precursors to protestantism,Refuted by St.Bernard).Lutheranism claims the belief in the real pressence but how it is handled is blasphemous,recieving the body yet rejecting the Sacrifice,Although it has always been called the Sacrifice they deemed it unacceptable.They hold the faith of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura which are incomplete and will lead many into hell because they believe they do not need to confess their sins.Though I find it ironic that many Lutheran churches DOES  have Confession.I consider them Anglican of Gemany,Or Germanican.I wish the Lutheran movement never happened and I find no good coming from it.

St. Teresa of Avila would agree with much of what you said.  She offered up much of her suffering against the evils of Lutherinsim.  She describes it in one f her books, I think the Way of Perfection, but I am not certain since it has been several years since I read her books.  If you find it, it will support your instincts.
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#9
(04-20-2010, 09:38 PM)St.Ambrose Wrote:
(04-20-2010, 09:34 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Luther was a Rosicrucian.

I can't see that,maybe you could elaberate a bit.

http://watch.pair.com/reformation.html
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#10
Through the external forum we can deduce who is in hell.  However, we do not know.  This knowledge is reserved to the divine Justice.  And thus (I believe) the Church has never declared unequivocally who is in hell because this would mean (as opposed to canonization) conjuring by imprecation denizens from that infernal place and calling them by names.  Even in exorcisms, possessions are made only by demons who give themselves various names and never by human beings condemned to eternal damnation. 
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