Fr. Gruner has the videos up.
#81
Well, CatholicThinker, this thread is supposed to be a Fatima thread.  And with regard to Fr. Martin, he keeps proving himself even after death.

At least a few times now I've posted excerpts from his two last books, one from the '80's and one from the '90's, where he made it abundantly clear that part of the Satanic infiltration warned of in Akita and Fatima would be in the form of sexual sin in the Church.  And anyone who's read Windswept House and the stuff about the "Cardinal of Century City" knows exactly what Fr. Martin was conveying in his writings, and knows that the entire book was heavily implicit on Fatima.  And of course, we now have Pope Benedict admitting this a couple days ago.  It's obviously part of that one sheet of paper they claim doesn't exist.  That in addition to the fact that Pope JPII warned about Apocalypse 12:4 in his homily on May 13, 2000, and the traditional interpretation of that in Catholic commentaries matches a major theme from Martin's last book.

And as far as the garbage posted to that other message board, it's always been quite clear to me that there was some anti-Fatima agenda attached to that smear campaign, the likely goal of which was to simply discredit Martin so that no one would listen to what he was warning about or trying to tell everyone.

And as far as the number of exorcisms are concerned, he's talking about the number or exorcism prayers (exorcisms) which may have to be repeated over and over again for a single subject. And that's what Fr. Amorth was talking about as well when mentioned thousands of exorcisms.

And there is a big picture to his writings as a whole.  He left clues everywhere.  His book The Jesuits was dedicated to "Our Lady of Fatima", a book which exposes hidden corruption in the Church reaching far back in history.  There's something to this theme of substantial numbers of clergy within the Church organization being guilty of terrible sin and then the organization as a whole trying to cover it up for them to avoid scandal. 
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#82
There is no doubt that much (at least) of what Fr. Martin wrote about was completely true.  What some don't seem to consider is that it's quite possible that he was in the know and spoke a lot of truth yet may have exaggerated certain things and/or led a less than saintly personal life.  There's quite a bit of complexity in all of it.

Of course I believe in the message of Fatima, repeated at Akita, and I think anyone with a brain must conclude that the infiltration of the Church by modernists, perverts, etc., that has caused the sex abuse crisis, was probably spoken of indirectly or even directly in the text part of the 3rd Secret!  Perhaps some day we will see it revealed!

I love Fatima as a topic; sorry for derailing the thread a bit if I did.  I didn't start it. :)  No more comments about Fr. Martin for me (God rest his soul).

FYI... I am from Wisconsin... and I have talked to a couple different people that knew Fr. Fiore.  I believe that man, and Fr. Kunz, were saints.
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#83
Is the complete video of Fr. Kramer up and working?? When I checked yesterday, it stopped about 10-15 mins. in and would not reload. I was disappointed!
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#84
(05-15-2010, 11:49 AM)unknown Wrote: Well, CatholicThinker, this thread is supposed to be a Fatima thread.  And with regard to Fr. Martin, he keeps proving himself even after death.

At least a few times now I've posted excerpts from his two last books, one from the '80's and one from the '90's, where he made it abundantly clear that part of the Satanic infiltration warned of in Akita and Fatima would be in the form of sexual sin in the Church.  And anyone who's read Windswept House and the stuff about the "Cardinal of Century City" knows exactly what Fr. Martin was conveying in his writings, and knows that the entire book was heavily implicit on Fatima.  And of course, we now have Pope Benedict admitting this a couple days ago.  It's obviously part of that one sheet of paper they claim doesn't exist.  That in addition to the fact that Pope JPII warned about Apocalypse 12:4 in his homily on May 13, 2000, and the traditional interpretation of that in Catholic commentaries matches a major theme from Martin's last book.

And as far as the garbage posted to that other message board, it's always been quite clear to me that there was some anti-Fatima agenda attached to that smear campaign, the likely goal of which was to simply discredit Martin so that no one would listen to what he was warning about or trying to tell everyone.

And as far as the number of exorcisms are concerned, he's talking about the number or exorcism prayers (exorcisms) which may have to be repeated over and over again for a single subject. And that's what Fr. Amorth was talking about as well when mentioned thousands of exorcisms.

And there is a big picture to his writings as a whole.  He left clues everywhere.  His book The Jesuits was dedicated to "Our Lady of Fatima", a book which exposes hidden corruption in the Church reaching far back in history.  There's something to this theme of substantial numbers of clergy within the Church organization being guilty of terrible sin and then the organization as a whole trying to cover it up for them to avoid scandal. 

Plus fishie, unknown. :)

Catholic Thinker, sorry I'm a little late getting back to the thread. What's your name at CAF? Yes, I did read that thread at AQ. It's full of lies and slander.

Edited to add: the rabid, frothing at the mouth Fundies who love people like Fr. Martin and Gerry Matatics are only a problem for conservative Catholic, because they threaten the whole premise of their stance. Fr. Martin and Gerry Matatics aren't really a problem for traditional Catholics. I still don't see how you can call Fr. Martin a Fundie, but anyway I digress. If you want to reply, please start up a thread and pm with the link.

Sorry, off topic... carry on. 
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#85
J,

I did *not* (at least I hope I did not and if so it was not intentional) *call* Fr. Martin a fundie or anything close - I just said that (because he was sometimes so extremely negative about the Church) that he gave them ammunition.  Of course, if they had brains, and really wanted to emulate him, they would have become traditional Catholics, as I told them (that's about when all my posts started getting deleted).

Some of Fr. Martin's *early* writings really make it sound like he thought the *entire* Church was corrupt and unsavable.  In fact, in "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church", he even openly asks the question if the Church will survive.  Such is *not* the correct attitude of a faithful, orthodox/traditional Catholic, who knows that Christ did not lie to Peter and the Church will indeed survive until the end of time.

If you have not read this book I might suggest you do - I think you will understand what I'm saying then.

I didn't want to comment here further on Martin but had to clear that up.

FWIW I think you may be entirely correct about his attackers; I don't know.  I do know that in his later years he did do some good in exposing the corrupt, evil infiltration in the hierarchy, and seemed then to love the true Church.

I will PM you my CA name.
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#86
(05-16-2010, 02:43 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: J,

I did *not* (at least I hope I did not and if so it was not intentional) *call* Fr. Martin a fundie or anything close - I just said that (because he was sometimes so extremely negative about the Church) that he gave them ammunition.  Of course, if they had brains, and really wanted to emulate him, they would have become traditional Catholics, as I told them (that's about when all my posts started getting deleted).

Some of Fr. Martin's *early* writings really make it sound like he thought the *entire* Church was corrupt and unsavable.  In fact, in "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church", he even openly asks the question if the Church will survive.  Such is *not* the correct attitude of a faithful, orthodox/traditional Catholic, who knows that Christ did not lie to Peter and the Church will indeed survive until the end of time.

If you have not read this book I might suggest you do - I think you will understand what I'm saying then.

I didn't want to comment here further on Martin but had to clear that up.

FWIW I think you may be entirely correct about his attackers; I don't know.  I do know that in his later years he did do some good in exposing the corrupt, evil infiltration in the hierarchy, and seemed then to love the true Church.

I will PM you my CA name.

I think that this is one thing that people often get confused about regarding Fr. Martin. He didn't question whether the Church would survive. He questioned whether the Church would survive as it is now (and as it's been for many centuries now).  Fr., like any good Catholic believed in Christ's promises for His Church. What he asked was whether the Church would be able to remain a peaceful, global institution, with the ear and respect of the whole world, and it's own sovereign nation.

I think he rightly asked if the Church may not have to go back to the catacombs before it's all said and done.
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#87
(05-17-2010, 01:00 PM)Walty Wrote:
(05-16-2010, 02:43 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: J,

I did *not* (at least I hope I did not and if so it was not intentional) *call* Fr. Martin a fundie or anything close - I just said that (because he was sometimes so extremely negative about the Church) that he gave them ammunition.  Of course, if they had brains, and really wanted to emulate him, they would have become traditional Catholics, as I told them (that's about when all my posts started getting deleted).

Some of Fr. Martin's *early* writings really make it sound like he thought the *entire* Church was corrupt and unsavable.  In fact, in "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church", he even openly asks the question if the Church will survive.  Such is *not* the correct attitude of a faithful, orthodox/traditional Catholic, who knows that Christ did not lie to Peter and the Church will indeed survive until the end of time.

If you have not read this book I might suggest you do - I think you will understand what I'm saying then.

I didn't want to comment here further on Martin but had to clear that up.

FWIW I think you may be entirely correct about his attackers; I don't know.  I do know that in his later years he did do some good in exposing the corrupt, evil infiltration in the hierarchy, and seemed then to love the true Church.

I will PM you my CA name.

I think that this is one thing that people often get confused about regarding Fr. Martin. He didn't question whether the Church would survive. He questioned whether the Church would survive as it is now (and as it's been for many centuries now).  Fr., like any good Catholic believed in Christ's promises for His Church. What he asked was whether the Church would be able to remain a peaceful, global institution, with the ear and respect of the whole world, and it's own sovereign nation.

I think he rightly asked if the Church may not have to go back to the catacombs before it's all said and done.

Perhaps I did misunderstand him to some extent.  The entire book did have an extremely negative feel (then again, it's topic was corruption).  I'll give it another read some day.
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#88
Finally the last video has been put up and here it is Fr. Kramer and he...

http://www.fatimachallenge.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69:what-are-the-contents-of-the-missing-third-secret-text&catid=26

tim
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