Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven. The Argument over Celibacy
#11
(05-29-2010, 09:39 PM)Polemos Wrote: The link is to an article by Sandro Magister. I think many, myself included, have (or at least had) a misconception about what lifting the discipline of priestly celibacy would practically mean in light of the tradition of the universal church.

Priestly celibacy is not a tradition of the universal Church, but of one particular church.

(05-30-2010, 12:13 AM)maldon Wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but why would sex the night before hinder a priest's ability to celebrate Mass the next day?

In the East, the eucharistic fast not only includes food, but sexual relations.  So it's not just the priest that is to abstain the night before, but all married faithful.  The reason for this is, food is a foreshadowing of the Eucharist.  Food sustains our body and soul momentarily, the Eucharist sustains our body and soul eternally.  Likewise, sexual relations are a foreshadowing of the Eucharist.  Our God gives himself fully to us in the flesh, and we lovingly accept it and give him our flesh, and the two become one.  The reason for fasting from food and sex in the Eucharistic fast is letting go of the lesser good, the type, in preparation for the greater good, that which the type foreshadowed.  You give up food for a time because you are about to receive that which the food represented.  You give up sex for a time because you are about to receive that which sex represented.

(05-30-2010, 10:35 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(05-30-2010, 10:00 AM)Credo Wrote:
Stubborn Wrote:Folks who think celibacy should not be a requirement for priests take too lightly the task at hand for the priest.

As one who has defended the discipline of celibacy in particular circumstances, the above comment is an example of Latin bias writ large. Do Catholic priests in the east, "take too lightly the task at hand for the priest?"

Yes.

Eastern Catholic priests certainly do not take their task lightly.  In fact, of the two most saintly priests I know, one of them is married and does a far better job as a pastor than any Latin Catholic pastor I have met, trad or not.  At first I was a little offended by this comment, but then I looked at your screen name and had to laugh.  You certainly live up to it  :laughing:

Reply
#12
Here's when a few pope's had to say about it:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g....htm#par11

11. Now, however, We want you to rally to combat the abominable conspiracy against clerical celibacy. This conspiracy spreads daily and is promoted by profligate philosophers, some even from the clerical order. They have forgotten their person and office, and have been carried away by the enticements of pleasure. They have even dared to make repeated public demands to the princes for the abolition of that most holy discipline. But it is disgusting to dwell on these evil attempts at length. Rather, We ask that you strive with all your might to justify and to defend the law of clerical celibacy as prescribed by the sacred canons, against which the arrows of the lascivious are directed from every side.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12CLERG.HTM

Celibacy

20. The priest has as the proper field of his activity everything that pertains to the supernatural life, since it is he who promotes the increase of this supernatural life and communicates it to the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. Consequently, it is necessary that he renounce "the things of the world," in order to have care only for "the things of the Lord".[30] And it is precisely because he should be free from preoccupation with worldly things to dedicate himself entirely to the divine service, that the Church has established the law of celibacy, thus making it ever more manifest to all peoples that the priest is a minister of God and the father of souls. By his law of celibacy, the priest, so far from losing the gift and duties of fatherhood, rather increases them immeasurably, for, although he does not beget progeny for this passing life of earth, he begets children for that life which is heavenly and eternal.

21. The more resplendent priestly chastity is, so much the more does the sacred minister become, together with Christ, "a pure victim, a holy victim, an immaculate victim".[31]

22. In order carefully to preserve unstained this inestimable treasure of our chastity, it is suitable and necessary to be obedient to that exhortation of the Prince of Apostles, which we daily repeat in the Divine Office, "Be ye sober, and watch".[32]



http://212.77.1.247/holy_father/pius_xii...as_en.html

. . . by this law of celibacy the priest not only does not abdicate his paternity, but increases it immensely, for he begets not for an earthly and transitory life but for the heavenly and eternal one.
Reply
#13
I don't think anyone here is arguing that priestly celibacy should be forbidden.  Unless this was an ex cathedra statement by a pope, then he is talking not about a doctrine of the faith, but a practice of the Latin church.  He even speaks of law, which would be canon law.  The canons of the Latin church do not apply to the Eastern churches.  Also, the Pope could not make an ex cathedra statement about mandatory priestly celibacy, because this would mean that the Catholic Church as a whole had it wrong for the first 500 years, and that the bulls of Union from Lyons and Florence, approbated by the Pope, were wrong for saying Eastern Catholics were well within their rights to maintain a married clergy, and that Pope Leo XIII was wrong when he gave the encyclical Orientalium Dignitas.
Reply
#14
(05-30-2010, 12:13 AM)maldon Wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but why would sex the night before hinder a priest's ability to celebrate Mass the next day?

There is (was) such requirement for the Easter Orthodox and married Catholic priests, similar to the sacramental fasting (from 12AM).

As for the celibacy my understanding is that

- married priest is better than no priest at all

- married priest is better than active homosexual priest

- married priest is better than priest who masturbates in regular basis

The celibacy is natural requirement in the time of persecution, celibate men are free, married man and bond to their wife and children. Also the celibacy requirement was useful means to select the best when to be priest meant significant social and monetary advantages, so there was no shortage for candidates to the priesthood. (According to the traditional teaching the vocation is the call of the bishop at the ordination)

So my opinion is that priest who avoid sex in any form and parents of many children who push all of their boys for the priesthood (again: vocation is the call of the bishop) has the right to argue for the celibacy. The rest of us should pray to God to lead His Church to find the proper way, whithout forming judgment about things which are beyond us. .
Reply
#15
(05-30-2010, 11:18 AM)Melkite Wrote: I don't think anyone here is arguing that priestly celibacy should be forbidden.  Unless this was an ex cathedra statement by a pope, then he is talking not about a doctrine of the faith, but a practice of the Latin church.  He even speaks of law, which would be canon law.  The canons of the Latin church do not apply to the Eastern churches.  Also, the Pope could not make an ex cathedra statement about mandatory priestly celibacy, because this would mean that the Catholic Church as a whole had it wrong for the first 500 years, and that the bulls of Union from Lyons and Florence, approbated by the Pope, were wrong for saying Eastern Catholics were well within their rights to maintain a married clergy, and that Pope Leo XIII was wrong when he gave the encyclical Orientalium Dignitas.


They are not ex cathedra pronouncements, the popes are simply teaching that priests should be celibate.
Reply
#16
(05-30-2010, 12:05 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(05-30-2010, 11:18 AM)Melkite Wrote: I don't think anyone here is arguing that priestly celibacy should be forbidden.  Unless this was an ex cathedra statement by a pope, then he is talking not about a doctrine of the faith, but a practice of the Latin church.  He even speaks of law, which would be canon law.  The canons of the Latin church do not apply to the Eastern churches.  Also, the Pope could not make an ex cathedra statement about mandatory priestly celibacy, because this would mean that the Catholic Church as a whole had it wrong for the first 500 years, and that the bulls of Union from Lyons and Florence, approbated by the Pope, were wrong for saying Eastern Catholics were well within their rights to maintain a married clergy, and that Pope Leo XIII was wrong when he gave the encyclical Orientalium Dignitas.


They are not ex cathedra pronouncements, the popes are simply teaching that priests should be celibate.

Then why didn't they enforce that on the eastern rites? The popes you speak of were specifically referring to the latin rite.
Reply
#17
(05-30-2010, 01:53 PM)BlessedKarl Wrote: Then why didn't they enforce that on the eastern rites? The popes you speak of were specifically referring to the latin rite.

Since 1927(?) they actually enforce it everywhere except in the areas in Central Europe, where they were accepted to the Roman Church. Around 1600 Rome and some Eastern Churches made a concordat, the Easteners accepted the Filioque, the Purgatory as main issues, but retained their own hierarchy and the right to ordain married men as priests (not bishops).

Outside of this area only celibate priest are allowed. Recently there are cases of disobedience, the Apostolic see consequently hold the rule for the celibacy.

For the recently accepted Anglican the aegreement says that married man who functioned as pastors in the Anglican Church will be ordained as Catholic priests, but new vocations had to keep the celibacy.
Reply
#18
glgas, you are wrong.  the ukrainian catholics in north america are ordaining married men.  a very good friend of mine was ordained a priest by the eparch of parma last year.  the bishop didn't find his wife or five children to be an impediment.
Reply
#19
(05-30-2010, 01:53 PM)BlessedKarl Wrote:
(05-30-2010, 12:05 PM)Stubborn Wrote: They are not ex cathedra pronouncements, the popes are simply teaching that priests should be celibate.

Then why didn't they enforce that on the eastern rites? The popes you speak of were specifically referring to the latin rite.

That is a good question. I have no answer for you.

It seems pretty obvious, especially given it has been the constant teaching of the Church as related in those quotes from the popes, that clerical celibacy should be the universal rule.   
Reply
#20
(05-30-2010, 06:23 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(05-30-2010, 01:53 PM)BlessedKarl Wrote:
(05-30-2010, 12:05 PM)Stubborn Wrote: They are not ex cathedra pronouncements, the popes are simply teaching that priests should be celibate.

Then why didn't they enforce that on the eastern rites? The popes you speak of were specifically referring to the latin rite.

That is a good question. I have no answer for you.

It seems pretty obvious, especially given it has been the constant teaching of the Church as related in those quotes from the popes, that clerical celibacy should be the universal rule.   

But that's just it.  It HASN'T been the constant teaching of the Church.  That's the answer.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)