The Yardarm is the Remedy
#31
(06-08-2010, 06:43 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: since rbj is unwilling or incapable of answering my question a question I've asked you more then once  it's a bit rich to demand an asnwer from me
But I not suprised

Your question ("What is the condition for Israel to lift the blockade?") is irrelevant if we have not first considered the morality (or immorality) of the blockade.  Hence, my question.  If the blockade is immoral, the blockade must be lifted because it offends God.  If it is not immoral, then the conditions for lifting the blockade can be discussed in political terms.  But morality comes first.  Is it moral?

My question, for the fifth time:
Do you agree that the blockade is immoral if it only allows a limited amount of food and medicine, a tiny fraction of the amount needed for normal health and thereby victimizes non-combatants, including women, children, elderly, disabled, sick, etc.?  Is it not immoral to intend  to harm non-combatants in this way?

It's becoming apparent that when it comes to international affairs and conflicts between nations, you'd rather not concern yourself with Catholic standards of morality, because you seldom speak in such terms.
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#32
Y question is not irrelevent and I'd u won't Nswer it then stop askin ne your bullshit ones
fair is fair
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#33
Here is another question for u rbj let's see if this is an easier one for u to answer
has here ever been a moral blockade? Think carefully and mind how u answer
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#34
(06-08-2010, 09:06 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Here is another question for u rbj let's see if this is an easier one for u to answer
has here ever been a moral blockade? Think carefully and mind how u answer

You continue to display your disregard for approaching world affairs from a Catholic perspective.

The answer to your question, from a Catholic moral standpoint, is that if the blockade intends to harm, possibly to a fatal degree, non-combatants, then no, it is not moral.  You cannot intend to do evil and remain within the limits of morality.  The Holy See has been very clear about the immorality of targeting non-combatants in warfare, and a blockade is an act of war because it does violence to an entire population.
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#35
U are assuming the blockade is evil
wrong assumtpion
the blockade is not intnded to harm innocents (blockades by there nature will but that is not the intent) war is he'll
will u answer my queStions? Or will just spew shit from your mouth as always
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#36
(06-08-2010, 01:05 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: U are assuming the blockade is evil
wrong assumtpion
the blockade is not intnded to harm innocents (blockades by there nature will but that is not the intent) war is he'll
will u answer my queStions? Or will just spew shit from your mouth as always

"War is hell."  So throw morality out the door.  Who needs Catholic moral teaching, right?  War is hell, after all!

The blockade IS intended to harm innocents.  The Israelis have said so (Dov Wiesglass, an aide to Ehud Olmert, said they intended to put the Palestinians on a diet).  According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, 60% of Gazan households are food insecure, which puts plenty of non-combatants at health risk. 80% rely on humanitarian aid.  But war is hell, so who cares about the injustice done to innocent people, including children, women, the unborn, and the elderly?

According to an Israeli human rights organization:

"Just 2,300 truckloads of goods are allowed in each month, compared to 10,400 before the blockade. . . . Some 30,000 trucks enter Manhattan, which has roughly the same population as Gaza, each day."

See http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art...lg5In4qM8Q

And if that's not objective enough for you, here's the Holy See's most recent statement:
http://www.zenit.org/article-29520?l=english

But who the heck cares what anybody says, Catholic or not.  War is hell, so let them all die!

So says DK, who has no need for morality in discussing moral matters.
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#37
(06-08-2010, 02:28 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(06-08-2010, 01:05 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: U are assuming the blockade is evil
wrong assumtpion
the blockade is not intnded to harm innocents (blockades by there nature will but that is not the intent) war is he'll
will u answer my queStions? Or will just spew shit from your mouth as always

"War is hell."  So throw morality out the door.  Who needs Catholic moral teaching, right?  War is hell, after all!

The blockade IS intended to harm innocents.  The Israelis have said so (Dov Wiesglass, an aide to Ehud Olmert, said they intended to put the Palestinians on a diet).  According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, 60% of Gazan households are food insecure, which puts plenty of non-combatants at health risk. 80% rely on humanitarian aid.  But war is hell, so who cares about the injustice done to innocent people, including children, women, the unborn, and the elderly?

According to an Israeli human rights organization:

"Just 2,300 truckloads of goods are allowed in each month, compared to 10,400 before the blockade. . . . Some 30,000 trucks enter Manhattan, which has roughly the same population as Gaza, each day."

See http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art...lg5In4qM8Q

And if that's not objective enough for you, here's the Holy See's most recent statement:
http://www.zenit.org/article-29520?l=english

But who the heck cares what anybody says, Catholic or not.  War is hell, so let them all die!

So says DK, who has no need for morality in discussing moral matters.

In before DK says what the See says doesn't matter after VII.  :laughing:
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#38
Oh rbj if wAr is  not he'll  can u pls tell us what it is?
I'll wAit
yeAh that's  rght wAr is he'll
thE  human rights group is hRdly objective bu no one nor any org ization is o je give for u claim so begeTs how nieve u r
so again I ask u
what blockade ever was moral? What does blockade meAn? Definitions matter oh that might be to m y questions for let's see if u can answer one
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#39
(06-08-2010, 03:37 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Oh rbj if wAr is  not he'll  can u pls tell us what it is?
I'll wAit
yeAh that's  rght wAr is he'll
thE  human rights group is hRdly objective bu no one nor any org ization is o je give for u claim so begeTs how nieve u r
so again I ask u
what blockade ever was moral? What does blockade meAn? Definitions matter oh that might be to m y questions for let's see if u can answer one

DK, we are Catholic.  What matters to us is what the Church teaches, not what is normal for the world.  The Church gives us infallible teachings on morality.  If actions, whether by individuals or governments, do not conform to the standards of the Catholic Church's moral teachings, we must condemn them. 

Total war tactics have been the standard of warfare for the last 70 years.  But the Church has always condemned total war because it deliberately targets non-combatants, which is always immoral.  It doesn't matter if everyone is doing it.  That doesn't make it OK.  If it's a sin, it's a sin.

You continue to avoid my questions because you don't want to approach things from a Catholic perspective.  I don't know why, exactly.  It confuses me that you call yourself a Catholic yet ignore Catholic moral teaching in dealing with the actions of governments.  I don't care about your worldy perspectives.  They are a path to damnation.  I care about God's prerogatives and His rights, not the prerogatives of nation-states.  Their God is Machiavelli.  Mine is Jesus Christ.
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#40
Yes the xhrch teahes us but the church is not pacifist individuals and states can and do defend themselves
if u r pushing one weird pacifist shit with me u won't get far
I am a catholic
u I dunno
as for this situation the blockade and the war we are discussing I have asked u pleny not one queationnu hVe answered
fair enough
don't bother
but what dobh propse isreal do? Lift the blockade then what? What? It's easy to abLe your rotenone finger Another matter to actually offr something besides empty bitching and pacifist rhetoric
the blockade is oncor a reason . U may not wNt to address that reason bt that reason matter s
why is gaza under blockade? What are the izeali conditions for the blockade to be lifted? These are objective questions let's see ifbu can answer but don't answer me  answer them to yourself
that might help u understand the conflict u shownlittle in understanding
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