The Yardarm is the Remedy
#51
(06-09-2010, 12:24 AM)rbjmartin Wrote: Arun, when you are elected pope, I will give you some credibility in determining what is Catholic doctrine.

Let the day come!!! ;)
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#52
Opeation cast lead crtainly was nor total war
let's use what we know is a total war WWII and let's  see if operation cat lead lives up to what you claim?
does operTiom xast lead squeal or surpass the massive carpet bombings and fire bombings of Germany ie Dresden? Or the massivefire Nd carpet bombings of japan? Or the massive air land and sea assAults of d day? Or the compete and total invasion and destru tion of a nation as what happened to Germany by the end o the war? Compared to total war gaza and operation cast lead is a controlled small skirmish
thaw not to imply nor argue irbid not a wAr but it is not a total war
Vietnam wZ not a total wAr war iether
in total war rbj u do not put  enemy populations on diets. U conquer and compeltely destroy and vanquish the enemy
order of magnitudes is important
ga- aS nor nor is now a total war

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#53
(06-09-2010, 08:04 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Opeation cast lead crtainly was nor total war
let's use what we know is a total war WWII and let's  see if operation cat lead lives up to what you claim?
does operTiom xast lead squeal or surpass the massive carpet bombings and fire bombings of Germany ie Dresden? Or the massivefire Nd carpet bombings of japan? Or the massive air land and sea assAults of d day? Or the compete and total invasion and destru tion of a nation as what happened to Germany by the end o the war? Compared to total war gaza and operation cast lead is a controlled small skirmish
thaw not to imply nor argue irbid not a wAr but it is not a total war
Vietnam wZ not a total wAr war iether
in total war rbj u do not put  enemy populations on diets. U conquer and compeltely destroy and vanquish the enemy
order of magnitudes is important
ga- aS nor nor is now a total war

The only reason Israel shows any restraint is because it is under the scrutiny of the international community (under the auspices of the UN) and the international media.  It is not for reasons of morality that they show any restraint.  Do you think that if they were not under scrutiny that they would hesitate to firebomb the whole of Gaza and kill every gentile man, woman, and child?  They are smarter than that.  They know that the Palestinians must be wiped out incrementally.  That is their ultimate agenda.  If you don't believe that, then you're the one who is running through poppy fields.

The defining characteristic of total war is not carpet bombing or use of nuclear arms.  The defining characteristic is its failure to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, which is what Pius XII, Cardinal Ottaviani, Benedict XVI, and so many other prominent churchmen have so abhorred.  The Israelis are making war on every Palestinian man, woman, and child, not just Hamas.  Again, you'd have to be pretty naive to deny this.
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#54
No that is not the defining feature of total war
the view of combatant and non combatant u keep pushing is fairly modern
through most of history war did not split combatant with non
that why sieges worked that's why blockades work
my point is gaza is not. TotAl war
whether this is due to un scrutiny or not is not the point the point is gaza is n what j claim it is not a total wAr
again total war is not puttig your enemy on a diEt
lol
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#55
(06-09-2010, 09:39 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: No that is not the defining feature of total war
the view of combatant and non combatant u keep pushing is fairly modern
through most of history war did not split combatant with non
that why sieges worked that's why blockades work
my point is gaza is not. TotAl war
whether this is due to un scrutiny or not is not the point the point is gaza is n what j claim it is not a total wAr
again total war is not puttig your enemy on a diEt
lol

Then please tell me what is the defining feature of total war.  You only say what you think it is not.
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#56
total war means exactly what it says TOTAL
the goal and purpose of which is to total destroy and vanquish the enemy. by most of not all means one enemy has against the other. it also means the state dedicates itself total to this goal.
wwii is a very good example of the complete horror of total war. to argue gaza is under an isreali onslaught of total war is silly. isreal has the might to completely destroy gaza i fit choose to it doesn't.
u will say this is due to scrutiny i say its a little of both scrutiny and not actually wanting to destroy gaza TOTALY. maybe because once they do they will be responsible in building it up. i don't know but i do know looking at numbers of casualties in isreali bombing raids or looking at the ground and it being under hamas control and nt isreali that gaza is not under an isreali onslaught of total war
even the blockade says so as aid gets through. a total war would enact and enforce the blockade different as its doctrine is different
i am not arguing it is not a war or that iseal kills Palestinians it does and im not arguing hamas hasn't fired thousand sof rockets (though not very good) into isreal.
it has.
i just want to call this what it is. and its not total war or i doubt hamas would be in control of gaza
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#57
(06-09-2010, 11:24 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: total war means exactly what it says TOTAL
the goal and purpose of which is to total destroy and vanquish the enemy.

Which is the long-term goal of the Israelis towards the Palestinians.
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#58
What do u expect when mohams and hammas and palistinians havehat very goal for isreal hey had said as much. Ore then once.  I don't belive it is the goal of isreal to perpetrate a palistinians genociide  the wasp who control isreal would of done that already  if it was there goal
yeah it is the duty of isreal  to defend it's people that is the duty of very state
iwR is war
maybe in the future this migh be ome a total war but at present it is far from a total war
just keeping it real
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#59
(06-09-2010, 12:21 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: What do u expect when mohams and hammas and palistinians havehat very goal for isreal hey had said as much.

Fine, but that doesn't make it moral.  That's all I'm concerned with, and that's all any of us should be concerned with as Catholics.  How does God view this?  If some Muslims are seeking the genocide of the Jews, it is evil.  If some Jews are seeking the genocide of the Palestinians, it is equally evil.  Neither side should be given a free pass, and whoever has the greater means to perpetrate this evil should be the primary target of criticism.  If the balance shifts to the Palestinians and they seek to perpetrate genocide, then they should become the primary target of criticism. We need to be objective about this and hold accountable those who intend evil, instead of absolving them with your "war is war" Alistair-Crowley-esque "do what thou will" attitude.
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#60
The difference again is on of magnitude
some Jews do want genocide but they r not he state of isreal and if anything the Jews who do want that the kach ect are not in control
it's over statement and bullshit to call what's goin on in gaza a genocide
that said mohamadan and moham orga have deciDed they're wish to destroy isreal so then
it follows isreal can and will defend itself against it's enemies
this blockade is one means it is using and really in the grand s heme of human cruilty this is maybe a 3
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