Traditional Vestments in the NO Mass
#11
Yes, priests may celebrate the Novus Ordo in "traditional" vestments, the biretta, and even the maniple (the strip of cloth that hangs from the cleric's wrist like a butler's towel). I know some priests who do this regularly.

Here's an image of a Novus Ordo Mass at Saint Michael's Abbey, Farnborough (the burial place of Napoleon III).

[Image: elevation.jpg]


SaintRafael Wrote:There is also the case that Baroque is more beautiful aesthetically than Gothic.

Ha. Well, on the subject of Baroque vestments, Father Adrian Fortescue had harsh words to say about them.

the Reverend Adrian Fortescue, "The Vestments of the Roman Rite" Wrote:A man in massive folds of rich
material looks manly, dignified, and fine. A man in tights looks
ridiculous. That is one chief reason why we see the only hope for
beauty of vestments in a return to the older tradition, in which they
were large and fell in fine folds. In the eighteenth century a
desolating wave of bad taste passed over Europe. It gave us Baroc
churches, tawdry gilding, vulgarities of gaudy ornament instead of
fine construction. It passed over clothes, and gave us our mean,
tight modern garments. And it passed, alas! over vestments too,
and gave us skimped, flat vestments of bad colour, outlined in that
most impossible material, gold braid, instead of the ample, stately
forms which had lasted till then.
This question of vestments is not
an isolated one. It is part of a general issue which runs through all
ecclesiastical art and music. We do not like Baroc vestments any
more than Baroc architecture or Baroc music.


The reform of music came first. We still thank God for it. And there are signs of the
same movement in the other arts. The same tendency that has
already given us back the old full neums of plainsong, instead of
the skimped, degraded forms we used to hear, now tends to a
return to the older full shapes of vestments. For these curtailed
shapes are not the historic ones which came down hardly modified
for so many centuries. They are a quite modern example of Baroc
taste. Must we, when we have expelled that deplorable period in
everything else, still keep it in this one case? Nor is what I say the
fad of one or two archaeologists. As far as I know, every student of
historic liturgy (I name especially Mgr. Wilpert and Father Braun),
and every artist and person of artistic taste, wants to restore a fuller,
more ample, more ancient form of vestments. In Rome too. I am
confident that the same movement which restored plainsong will
go forward, is going forward, at Rome,1 and will apply these
principles to other points as well. Dismiss from your minds the
idea that it is a question of Roman shape or Gothic shape. That puts
the whole issue in a false light. It is not a question of place, but of
period of time. These modern shapes are not specially Roman; they
came in at the same time nearly everywhere. And the older shape
was used at Rome just as much as everywhere else. Rome is full of
pictures and monuments which show that Popes wore the same
large vestments as everywhere else in the West, till Baroc taste
swept over Rome too. Let us be as Roman as possible always. But
in artistic matters let us look to Rome's good artistic periods. It
would be absurd to defend mangled plainsong and operatic music
as Roman. It is just as absurd to claim the name of the ancient city
for only one period of her long artistic development. Skimped
chasubles, gold braid, and lace are not Roman ; they are eighteenth century
bad taste.

But he didn't seem to like Gothic revival either, though he argues that the fuller form of the vestments are superior. I agree with that.
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#12
Any priest may wear a biretta.  The question is, why would he?  ???
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#13
Chris87 Wrote:Is there anything stopping Novus Ordo Priest's from dressing like Priests ?
Can a NO Priest wear a Traditional Chasuble ? Can he even wear a Biretta if he would chose to ?
If they are allowed, then why have I never seen a Priest dressed like that ?

It is not a matter of "dressing more Catholic" or not. It's really a matter of fashion. While I have never personally seen a revised Mass said with Fiddleback vestments, just this morning I saw an SSPX priest wear a toned-down Gothic chasuble. As for the biretta, I have seen very few traditional priests wear them, even during liturgical celebrations. No doubt it has to do with that little pom-pom up top. 

Quote:Why did Priest's start dressing less Catholic ? Apart from the obvious answer, . Why and when did the Priest  stop dressing like a Priest ?

The answers vary. While clerical clothes are a good witness to faith in the world, it is a disservice to religious to simply write-off those who don't go down this route as "liberals." Some men and women religious dress in common clothes out of humility. They do not wish to be socially elevated by their wardrobe. After all, the Franciscan habit was the Medieval version of ratty jeans and a t-shirt. Others do it for safety. Father John Corapi relates how some folk spit at priests in public, and I have heard of SSPX priests who need to have bodyguards in public places to watch their backs.

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#14
(06-07-2010, 09:38 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Any priest may wear a biretta.  The question is, why would he?  ???

I think it's good to wear the biretta because it's a sign of of the cleric's teaching authority (descendant of the modern university "graduation cap"). The best outward sign of it is when a cleric wears it during a homily or even teaching a class. But as a mere ornament while processing to and from the sacristy, I think it's a little pointless.
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#15
(06-07-2010, 09:48 PM)Credo Wrote:
Chris87 Wrote:Is there anything stopping Novus Ordo Priest's from dressing like Priests ?
Can a NO Priest wear a Traditional Chasuble ? Can he even wear a Biretta if he would chose to ?
If they are allowed, then why have I never seen a Priest dressed like that ?

It is not a matter of "dressing more Catholic" or not. It's really a matter of fashion. While I have never personally seen a revised Mass said with Fiddleback vestments, just this morning I saw an SSPX priest wear a toned-down Gothic chasuble. As for the biretta, I have seen very few traditional priests wear them, even during liturgical celebrations...

It has been my experience that more SSPX priests wear the biretta than not.
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#16
(06-07-2010, 12:59 PM)Chris87 Wrote: Dear Friends

I am sorry for asking such a silly question, but it is something that has been playing on my mind for a while now.
Are Novus Ordo Priests allowed to wear the same Traditional Vestments that a Priest of the FSSP,SSPX  etc wear ?
I only ask because I love the way Trad Priests actually look like Priests.
Is there anything stopping Novus Ordo Priest's from dressing like Priests ?
Can a NO Priest wear a Traditional Chasuble ? Can he even wear a Biretta if he would chose to ?
If they are allowed, then why have I never seen a Priest dressed like that ?
Why did Priest's start dressing less Catholic ? Apart from the obvious answer, . Why and when did the Priest  stop dressing like a Priest ?

Thank you
In the Heart of Our Lady
Chris

How are priests supposed to look?  Vestment styles differ between regions.  Priests of different Rites wear garments entirely different than Latin priests.  I'm not opposed to birettas and dignified vestments, however, I just think its odd to say that "Trad priests actually look like priests".

To answer your questions though.  The General Instruction of the Roman Missal gives the guidelines on what priests should wear when celebrating the new Mass.  First, vestments should always be noble, simple, and dignified.  I do not think the burlap chasubles and poorly made vestments we saw commonly in yesteryear would fit that description.  However, there are many vestment makers that are stepping up the quality now.  As for vestments, the sacred ministers are required to wear an amice, alb, cincture, stole, and chasuble (or dalmatic if deacon).  Thus, I think the reason birettas and maniples went out of style is because they weren't listed in the GIRM (but the reason behind that is another question).  As a particular rule in the United States (which was approved by Rome), priests do not have to vest with the amice if the alb covers their clericals (so the collar should not be showing through).  However, many younger priests and seminarians (such as myself) do use the amice.  A priest celebrating Mass should also be vested in the chasuble.  Fiddleback chasubles (which we see on many trad priests) are actually not ideal.  Saint Charles Borromeo hated them, and even in the 1940s and 1950s liturgical scholars were pushing for "fuller" Gothic style chasubles we see today (because they're less heavy, they flow better, don't have large stretches of alb). 
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#17
MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote:Fiddleback chasubles (which we see on many trad priests) are actually not ideal.  Saint Charles Borromeo hated them, and even in the 1940s and 1950s liturgical scholars were pushing for "fuller" Gothic style chasubles we see today (because they're less heavy, they flow better, don't have large stretches of alb).

Yeah. Did you see the quote I posted from Fortescue earlier?

To me, fiddlebacks are like sleeveless shirts, and you can see the priest's underwear (the alb) everywhere.
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#18
matthew_talbot Wrote:It has been my experience that more SSPX priests wear the biretta than not.

They wear biretta's in pubic, that is? This may be the case amongst some of their French priests. However, I cannot think of an instance when I have seen a Spanish- or English-speaking Society priest do so.

Then again: "Anecdotes of anecdotes," saith Credo, "Anecdotes of anecdotes; all is anecdotal."
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