Poll: Which event should be more emphasized?
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Resurection or Passion
#21
What's most important, the precedent or the event?
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#22
(06-23-2010, 04:00 AM)Benno Wrote: What's most important, the precedent or the event?

The result. In our changing word the precedent was event, a the event today will be precedent of the future.

My question is: what is larger step. The unique one, when God, the Absolutum squizes himself into a human body

Phil 2:6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.

or the consequence, what he shared with thousands of martyrs

8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

or the following consequence, what He partially also shares with the saints:

9 For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names: 10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

I, with the franciscans vote nfor the first event, the unique one, the Incarnation
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#23
(06-21-2010, 11:22 PM)serviam Wrote: The Resurrection is the cornerstone of our Faith.

Walty, I seldom disagree with you (OK, maybe on the prestige of advanced degrees), but I think you missed this one.

The Crucifixion is the central event in human history.  Christ was born to die.  His last words from the Cross, "It is accomplished" testify to that fact.  He didn't say that after rising on Sunday - He said it at the moment that His death redeemed the unworthy human race.

Easter Sunday's the second act - the main event is Good Friday.
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#24
(06-22-2010, 08:34 AM)timoose Wrote: The Crucifixion is what I was taught was paramount. the Passion is the run up to that, and you can not have the Resurrection with out the Crucifixion. The Mass is the re-presentation of the Crucifixion not the Resurrection. This is what always made us different from the Protestants. The Cross without the Corpus ain't Catholic. Protestants are centered on the Resurrection. That is why they have Easter Sunday sunrise services. This is why the have the Lord's supper infrequently and do not consider it the moment of Salvation, just a little memory. The entire Protestant rebellion is against the Eucharist. Jesus could not have risen from the dead had he not died first.
tim

what tim said, except St. Thomas Christians use a cross without a corpus per ancient tradition. I think St. Thomas himself (pray for us!) would have emphasized the Resurrection somewhat. The point is, dont get complacent, always meditate on the Passion.

I have always noticed, the Crucifix is covered on Good Friday out of shame, but unveiled on Easter- something I wouldnt have expected.
Also, the preface for Easter mentioned "Christ our pasch is sacrificed." as well as in the Easter Sequence. The Resurrection isnt the reversal of Good Friday to me; rather the fulfillment thereof, like heres how I redeemed you, but this is what will happen to you if you accept the Passion.







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#25
btw the Norse god Odin hung himself upside down. he found the runes like that. So......ya. I dont know if you consider that a god sacrificing himself
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#26
one more thing: Christs death saved us. Theoretically he could have just appeared to the Apostles in dreams and said preach that i saved mankind. But they all ran away. It took the resurrection to prove what He said; the Resurrection is why the one billion member Catholic Church exists.
Pax
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#27
(06-23-2010, 10:26 PM)randomtradguy Wrote: one more thing: Christs death saved us. Theoretically he could have just appeared to the Apostles in dreams and said preach that i saved mankind. But they all ran away. It took the resurrection to prove what He said; the Resurrection is why the one billion member Catholic Church exists.
Pax

I'm not sure where I read this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I read somewhere that the Resurrection was the acceptance of the Sacrifice by God. So in other words, if Christ just stayed dead, it would have meant the sacrifice was in vain. This seems to be supported by the following Scripture verse.

1 Cor. 15:17 And if Christ be not risen again, your faith is vain, for you are yet in your sins.
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#28
Wow, I'm really surprised to see that so many people on here don't know the Catholic Faith.  Obviously the Resurrection is by far the most important event in salvation history.  St. Paul I think said something along the lines of "if the Resurrection didn't happen, then we are to be the most pitied of all people, for our faith is in vain."  It is the Resurrection that gives our faith in Christ any meaning at all.  Without the resurrection, our faith is worthless.  St. Paul didn't say the same about the crucifixion.  That's not to say that you can have one without the other, they're both inextricably linked.  But it's kind of the same as the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  All three persons are equal, yet the Father holds the primacy.  The resurrection and the crucifixion can be said to be equal, yet the resurrection holds the obvious primacy.  In the same way that all the bishops have their authority through that of the Pope, all the Catholic feasts have their validity through that of the Resurrection.  And the Church has already taught us that the Resurrection is the central act, by placing Easter as the Feast of all Feasts.  All Catholics are required to receive the Eucharist during the Easter Season, not on Great Friday.  So, even the Church in her calendar teaches that the Resurrection is the Central Act, not the crucifixion.
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#29
(06-27-2010, 10:03 PM)Melkite Wrote: Wow, I'm really surprised to see that so many people on here don't know the Catholic Faith.  Obviously the Resurrection is by far the most important event in salvation history.   St. Paul I think said something along the lines of "if the Resurrection didn't happen, then we are to be the most pitied of all people, for our faith is in vain."  It is the Resurrection that gives our faith in Christ any meaning at all.  Without the resurrection, our faith is worthless. 

I said this:

Quote:One makes little sense without the other, but I think it is too easy to ignore the Passion. It should be the centre of focus in our lives, instead of pushed aside for things for which we are more comfortable.

The Passion, the suffering of Christ, was the primary Truth denied in some fashion by the earliest heresies.

Baskerville agreed with me.

Serviam said:

Quote:The Resurrection is the cornerstone of our Faith.

INPEFESS explained his thoughts. None of them were contrary to scripture.

Benno said:

Quote:And lots of other things... all adding up to really finally appreciating that the whole significance of Christ is not His Passion, but His Resurrection.

glgas didn't make any sense in his post.

Then, there was a discussion on the resurrection of the dead (a bit off topic),

AndreasAngelopolita said that the Passion should be more emphasised.

SoCalLocal felt that the suffering and sacrifice of God was unique enough to warrant it emphasis.

Then there was a discussion about what is more important, the precedent or the event?

No one said one was more important. It was what should be more emphasised. No one denied anything about the Catholic faith and much knowledge and understanding was shown.



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#30
(06-27-2010, 10:17 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(06-27-2010, 10:03 PM)Melkite Wrote: Wow, I'm really surprised to see that so many people on here don't know the Catholic Faith.  Obviously the Resurrection is by far the most important event in salvation history.   St. Paul I think said something along the lines of "if the Resurrection didn't happen, then we are to be the most pitied of all people, for our faith is in vain."  It is the Resurrection that gives our faith in Christ any meaning at all.  Without the resurrection, our faith is worthless. 

I said this:

Quote:One makes little sense without the other, but I think it is too easy to ignore the Passion. It should be the centre of focus in our lives, instead of pushed aside for things for which we are more comfortable.

The Passion, the suffering of Christ, was the primary Truth denied in some fashion by the earliest heresies.

Baskerville agreed with me.

Serviam said:

Quote:The Resurrection is the cornerstone of our Faith.

INPEFESS explained his thoughts. None of them were contrary to scripture.

Benno said:

Quote:And lots of other things... all adding up to really finally appreciating that the whole significance of Christ is not His Passion, but His Resurrection.

glgas didn't make any sense in his post.

Then, there was a discussion on the resurrection of the dead (a bit off topic),

AndreasAngelopolita said that the Passion should be more emphasised.

SoCalLocal felt that the suffering and sacrifice of God was unique enough to warrant it emphasis.

Then there was a discussion about what is more important, the precedent or the event?

No one said one was more important. It was what should be more emphasised. No one denied anything about the Catholic faith and much knowledge and understanding was shown.

Yes, his comment confused me, too.

Horrible, faithless Latins! ( ;) Just teasing you, Melkite. I know you don't really think that.)
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