What is the proper role of nationalism in the church?
#21
I don't know anything about the work  from the author named Sullivan, but Confirmation has traditionally been described as making one a Christian soldier (see the Roman Catechism on Confirmation). However, the way a soldier for Christ wages his war is not how the world does. St. Robert Bellarmine explains (sorry, this is long):


On Dying Well Wrote:The effect of Confirmation is also grace and a character, and such are requisite to make a Christian soldier fight against his invisible enemies; according to what St. Paul saith: “For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places” “Quia non est nobis conluctatio adversus carnem et sanguinem sed adversus principes et potestates adversus mundi rectores tenebrarum harum contra spiritalia nequitiae in caelestibus” (Ephesians vi. 12.) In fine, in baptism a little salt is put into the infant’s mouth; in Confirmation a slight blow is given to us, that so the Christian soldier may learn to fight, not by striking, but by enduring.

But that we may the more easily understand what is the duty of one anointed with chrism, that is, of a Christian soldier, we must consider what the Apostles received at their Confirmation on Whit-Sunday. They were not confirmed by the chrism, but they received from Christ, our chief high priest, the effect of the sacrament without the sacrament. They received three gifts, wisdom, eloquence, and charity, in the highest degree, and likewise the gift of miracles, which were most useful in converting infidel nations to the true faith. These gifts were signified by the "fiery tongues” which appeared on the day of Pentecost, whilst a sound as of a mighty wind was heard at the same time. The light of the fire signified wisdom, its heat charity, the form of the tongues eloquence, and the sound the gift of miracles.

But it bestows the gifts of spiritual wisdom and of charity, which is “patient and kind;" and as a sign of this most rare and yet most precious virtue of patience, the Bishop gives the person about to be confirmed a slight blow, that he may remember he now becomes a soldier of Christ, not to strike, but to endure; not to do injuries to others, but to bear them. In the Christian warfare, he fights not against visible but invisible enemies; for thus did Christ our great commander fight and conquer, who being nailed to the cross, conquered the infernal powers; thus did the Apostles fight, only just confirmed, for being severely scourged in the council of the Jews, they went forth " rejoicing that they were accounted worthy to suffer reproach for the name of Jesus." The grace of Confirmation then effects this, that when a man is unjustly injured, he should not think of revenge, but rejoice that he suffered reproach unjustly.

Let him then who has been confirmed enter into the chamber of his heart, and diligently inquire whether he has kept in his heart the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and especially wisdom and fortitude. Let him examine, I repeat, whether he possess the wisdom of the saints who esteemed eternal goods, and despised earthly ones; whether he has the fortitude of soldiers of Christ, who bear injuries more willingly than they do them. And lest he should possibly be deceived, let him descend to practise and examine his conscience. If he shall find that he is always truly ready to bestow alms, not to heap up riches; and if when injured he thinks not on revenge, but very readily .and willingly pardons the injury: he may justly exult in his heart as having in his soul a pledge of the adoption of the sons of God.
http://www.goodcatholicbooks.org/pdf/bel...g-well.pdf
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#22
I'm sorry to have to report this, but you have an out and out clerico-fascist in your midst. In the light of what I have already said and witnessed about the scene at home in England and nationalism, this guy is yet another one who thinks he can mix obnoxiously warmongering absolutist politics with religion. No one can do this and it verges on a serious sin !I will take no further notice of him. End of my contributions.
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#23
(07-01-2010, 03:10 AM)Apollonius Wrote: I'm sorry to have to report this, but you have an out and out clerico-fascist in your midst. In the light of what I have already said and witnessed about the scene at home in England and nationalism, this guy is yet another one who thinks he can mix obnoxiously warmongering absolutist politics with religion. No one can do this and it verges on a serious sin !I will take no further notice of him. End of my contributions.

What kind of quasi-liberal bellyaching is this?
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#24
Lycorth Wrote:
Apollonius Wrote:I'm sorry to have to report this, but you have an out and out clerico-fascist in your midst. In the light of what I have already said and witnessed about the scene at home in England and nationalism, this guy is yet another one who thinks he can mix obnoxiously warmongering absolutist politics with religion. No one can do this and it verges on a serious sin !I will take no further notice of him. End of my contributions.

What kind of quasi-liberal bellyaching is this?

It comes from statements like this:

Lycorth Wrote:I see nothing wrong with taking a militaristic view of our faith. We are, after all, at war against the devil, who is at war against us.

You might be right, you might be wrong, but from thence such statements come.
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#25
(07-01-2010, 06:25 PM)Credo Wrote: It comes from statements like this:

Lycorth Wrote:I see nothing wrong with taking a militaristic view of our faith. We are, after all, at war against the devil, who is at war against us.

You might be right, you might be wrong, but from thence such statements come.

There's nothing wrong or inaccurate about my statement. Apollonius is being overly sensitive and modernistic about what is in all likelihood a normal and traditional presentation of the faith by a devout Marian priest who probably doesn't subscribe to culturally liberal viewpoints.

He's been asked to provide proof of his claims, or at least examples, failing thus far to do so. I've heard communists make similar arguments as he, and actually provide something to back up their assertions with.
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#26
This horrible thread and the horrible people in it have put me out of this extremist league. I am going to go from this board for good , frankly I am appalled at what you all imagine constitutes the Catholic faith. I've looked in other threads too and your reasoning , if it can be called that, is allowing manic people to take over and work to their foul agenda. It must be the misrepresentation of the century.
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#27
See ya at RevLeft.
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#28
(07-02-2010, 11:42 AM)Lycorth Wrote: See ya at RevLeft.

I seriously doubt that he posts on Revleft while you happily post on Stormfront where "non-whites" are refered to regularly as subhuman and racial violence is glorified. People like you have no idea of the damage you do to the cause of Liturgical and Theological restoration by your attempt to join it with your psuedo-medivaelist atavism and even if you did I doubt you would care anyway. The propping up of brittle shallow egos with fantasies of domainance and the attempts to find a Divine sanction for your misanthrophy must come before all else it would seem.
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#29
(07-03-2010, 03:15 PM)Clovis Wrote: I seriously doubt that he posts on Revleft while you happily post on Stormfront where "non-whites" are refered to regularly as subhuman and racial violence is glorified. People like you have no idea of the damage you do to the cause of Liturgical and Theological restoration by your attempt to join it with your psuedo-medivaelist atavism and even if you did I doubt you would care anyway. The propping up of brittle shallow egos with fantasies of domainance and the attempts to find a Divine sanction for your misanthrophy must come before all else it would seem.

It was sarcasm.

I have no misanthropy, unlike you, who is clearly rife with hatred.
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