I prayed my First Rosary at home,full. it was the Luminous Mysteries
#51
(06-25-2010, 09:47 PM)charlesh Wrote:
Quote:What is wrong about meditate on the Baptism, Miracles or Jesus, Repentance, Foundation of the Church, Foundation of the Eucharist

Nothing. Just don't claim they're part of the rosary. The rosary Mary gave us has 15 mysteries. T

In the world were I live St Dominic invented the Rosary in the 12th Century against the heresy of the Albigenses; not the Blessed Virgin Before this 1200 years passed without Rosary, as a prof that the Rosary is something in time, changeable. The pope added a new part which as meditation helps to fight the modernism.

As for the presence of the Blessed Virgin She was definitely present in Cana, and almost certainly on the Last Supper, and She was the first witness of her Son's requesting to turn to God. We have no record of her presence at the Baptism, and she wasnt present at the Trasfiguration, but neither was she present during most time of the passion.
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#52
(06-25-2010, 09:41 PM)charlesh Wrote: The destruction of the Catholic church has happened on the watches of three people: Popes John, Paul, and John Paul.

You must know it better.

1./ The Catholic Church is not destructed, this is dogma, and if you say otherwise you are heretic

2./ The present trouble started in the 19th Century with the modernism, and was aplified partly by the sociological changes as people were forced to live their original rural environment for the cities, later for the suburb destroying their traditions, and partly by the systematic removal of God and moral from the schools. Both happen before John XXIII.

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#53
(06-25-2010, 08:42 AM)glgas Wrote:
(06-24-2010, 07:53 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: No. If it did, these optional, personal and private Luminous Mysteries would "invalidate" it.

Do you talk about the Luminous Mysteries in the Catechism as optional, personal and private?
Yes, they are.

The Rosary is a private prayer. However, it is defined. It is a defined private prayer.

Quote:I believe, however, that to bring out fully the Christological depth of the Rosary it would be suitable to make an addition to the traditional pattern which, while left to the freedom of individuals and communities, could broaden it to include the mysteries of Christ's public ministry between his Baptism and his Passion. In the course of those mysteries we contemplate important aspects of the person of Christ as the definitive revelation of God. Declared the beloved Son of the Father at the Baptism in the Jordan, Christ is the one who announces the coming of the Kingdom, bears witness to it in his works and proclaims its demands. It is during the years of his public ministry that the mystery of Christ is most evidently a mystery of light: “While I am in the world, I am the light of the world”

Here, Pope John Paul II clearly states that the public ministry of Christ (note quoted here, but there is more in the preceding and following paragraph) is not found in the Rosary to a great degree, so there is a traditional pattern, which an individual could, if they chose to, add to it ("broaden"). Private optional additions are not a problem. It is when people insist on them on being part of the definition that there is a problem. The Fatima prayer, for example, is not part of the Rosary, despite being given to us through a person by Mary herself. She said to pray it after a part of a rosary, not to make it a part of it.

The same with the Luminous Mysteries. They are a great devotion, however, they are best suited as a chaplet alone, instead of being a add on to the rosary.

Quote:The Rosary (with all mysteries) is optional, personal and private devotion, the official prayer of the Church is the Divine Office.  However the Compendium of the Catechism is official document of the Roman Catholic Church, and it does not makes any difference between the mysteries.
The Grants and Norms of Indulgences only apply to the 15 mysteries of the rosary as a whole. Any addition is not a problem, but the Rosary is a private prayer with a precise definition. 15 Mysteries, 15 decades.
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#54
(06-26-2010, 08:31 AM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: The Grants and Norms of Indulgences only apply to the 15 mysteries of the rosary as a whole. Any addition is not a problem, but the Rosary is a private prayer with a precise definition. 15 Mysteries, 15 decades.

I did not found such restriction

6. Si opus, indulgentia plenaria ditatum, apte dividi potest in partes (e.g. Rosarium mariale in decades), qui ex rationabili causa integrum opus non perficit, acquirere potest, pro parte quam peragit, partialem indulgentiam.

– recitatio Rosarii marialis vel hymni Akathistos in ecclesia aut oratorio, vel in familia, in religiosa Communitate, in christifidelium consociatione et generatim cum plures ad aliquem honestum finem conveniunt (conc. 17 § 1, 1° et conc. 23 § 1);

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/tribun...um_lt.html


Neither found any reverence that only prayers to wich indulgences are attached are to be considered as private prayers.

Here is the Apostolic Constitution attached to the latest edition of the Enchiridin
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_v...na_en.html
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#55

the obvious solution is for those who want to pray the Luminous Mysteries as part of the Rosary to do so while those of us who don't want to change the structure of the Rosary will pray the 15 mysteries as we have always done.  (some of the latter group might entertain the possibility of praying the Luminous Mysteries as a separate chaplet.) 

John Paul II said they were optional so i took him at his word and opted to stay with the tried and true, keeping Mary's Psalter consonant with David's Psalter.

both sides can make arguments to 'prove' they are right but in the end, we will all do what we want to do on this issue and the debate changes no one's position. 

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#56
Two problems:  the rosary is not only a private devotion, but also a public prayer --- often said by groups before Mass, for example.  So it is important to have something we all understand as "the rosary," whether we mix it up at home or not.  Also, things Pope John Paul II suggested are somehow seen as mandatory by many people. 

Since RVM suggests the luminous mysteries, and also suggests perhaps reordering the traditional weekly schedule to shoehorn them in on Thursdays, you have rosary leaders using them for public prayer every Thursday in parishes as if that's the standard.  And I don't think they go around first asking everyone if they feel like using that option.
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#57
(06-26-2010, 12:32 PM)Mhoram Wrote: Two problems:  the rosary is not only a private devotion, but also a public prayer --- often said by groups before Mass, for example.  So it is important to have something we all understand as "the rosary," whether we mix it up at home or not.  Also, things Pope John Paul II suggested are somehow seen as mandatory by many people. 

Since RVM suggests the luminous mysteries, and also suggests perhaps reordering the traditional weekly schedule to shoehorn them in on Thursdays, you have rosary leaders using them for public prayer every Thursday in parishes as if that's the standard.  And I don't think they go around first asking everyone if they feel like using that option.

yes, that is a problem.  the only answer i have for that is not to go to public recitations of the Rosary if you know the Luminous Mysteries will be used, which means to be especially wary of Thursdays.


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#58
(06-26-2010, 09:39 AM)glgas Wrote: I did not found such restriction
Look harder, like, in the source I cited.

Any body obliged to recite the rosary only has to say the Rosary as traditionally defined. The Luminous Mysteries are not part of this obligation (Confraternity of the Holy Rosary, various orders).

What the "Rosary is, is defined clearly in the Grants and Norms.

Quote:Neither found any reverence that only prayers to wich indulgences are attached are to be considered as private prayers.

Here is the Apostolic Constitution attached to the latest edition of the Enchiridin
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_v...na_en.html

Here: http://www.dominicanidaho.org/indulg.htm...recitatio)
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#59
(06-26-2010, 07:58 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: Here: http://www.dominicanidaho.org/indulg.htm...recitatio)

# The following table on Plenary Indulgences is not part of the Enchiridion, but can be constructed from it.

Obtainable any time any place
# Reading of Sacred Scripture
# Recitation of the Marian Rosary (Rosarii marialis recitatio)
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