Pot? Mortal sin? Sin at all?
#31
(07-11-2010, 05:56 AM)sheep101 Wrote: Why do you have such an animus aginst tobacco?
I am against people ingesting it with the false notion it is "cultural" or anything but the inhalation of burning leaves.

I have a lot of strong opinions. I normally do not post them. When I do, I think we can do without the surprised shock. I have thoughts. Do not be surprised by them.

Quote:As G.K Chesterton said(may be a paraphrase or a quote): "there is no contradiction between a pipe , a pint and a prayer".
The pipe is largely cultural. My grandfather smoked a pipe and I admit I have the same initial view of it as most here. However, I can look past that to see what it is.

Quote:Maybe some day in heaven I will light one up wth Pope St.Pius the X
Maybe you'll find Popes Urban VII and Urban VIII there to stamp it out. They banned it and even threatened to excommunicate because of it.

Quote:As to the ops question I am not sure, but I suspect if we were all not subjected to the propaganda about this herb it would be seen to be similar to alcohol.
Actually, it seems to be less than that. It is a form of intoxication.

As Dave Chappelle puts it, "You ain't crisp, but you can function".


     
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#32
(07-11-2010, 07:17 AM)Arun Wrote: Where is your proof? Can you demonstrate statistical evidence of illness/mortality rate (for tobacco-related illnesses only) in Native American, English, European or other heavy tobacco consumers within the given time frame?

I do not have any and I do not intend to prove it. It is not my intention to combat all harmful cultural elements. As I said, due to the extreme cultural influence, I think the sinful nature of it is mitigated for most users.

And getting "proof" about something in such a varied and widespread demographic is impossible except by giving statistics.

For the record, China and India are also have many heavy users.
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#33
(07-11-2010, 07:29 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 02:41 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: Obedience to civil authority is an obligation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm

Civil authority is of God, not by any revelation or positive institution, but by the mere fact that God is the Author of Nature, and Nature imperatively requires civil authority to be set up and obeyed.

God....bind(s) men in conscience to observe the behests of the State within the sphere of its competence.

A government agency is the one who bans it usually. It is regulated by the FDA. Is the FDA our government?

Is there a legitimate distinction between "the government" and "a government agency"?  When you pay taxes, do you say "I'm not paying taxes to the government, I am paying taxes to the IRS?".
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#34
(07-11-2010, 07:52 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:29 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 02:41 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: Obedience to civil authority is an obligation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm

Civil authority is of God, not by any revelation or positive institution, but by the mere fact that God is the Author of Nature, and Nature imperatively requires civil authority to be set up and obeyed.

God....bind(s) men in conscience to observe the behests of the State within the sphere of its competence.

A government agency is the one who bans it usually. It is regulated by the FDA. Is the FDA our government?

Is there a legitimate distinction between "the government" and "a government agency"?  When you pay taxes, do you say "I'm not paying taxes to the government, I am paying taxes to the IRS?".
Government agencies like the FDA can make regulations without following the process of government.

To put it this way, the FDA can classify and reclassify various substances by its own decision. It is making law and enforcing it, without following the government as defined in the US Constitution. Also, income tax is also forbidden by the US Constitution.
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#35
(07-11-2010, 08:20 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:52 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:29 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 02:41 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: Obedience to civil authority is an obligation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm

Civil authority is of God, not by any revelation or positive institution, but by the mere fact that God is the Author of Nature, and Nature imperatively requires civil authority to be set up and obeyed.

God....bind(s) men in conscience to observe the behests of the State within the sphere of its competence.

A government agency is the one who bans it usually. It is regulated by the FDA. Is the FDA our government?

Is there a legitimate distinction between "the government" and "a government agency"?  When you pay taxes, do you say "I'm not paying taxes to the government, I am paying taxes to the IRS?".
Government agencies like the FDA can make regulations without following the process of government.

To put it this way, the FDA can classify and reclassify various substances by its own decision. It is making law and enforcing it, without following the government as defined in the US Constitution. Also, income tax is also forbidden by the US Constitution.

Not as amended however.  :tiphat:
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#36
(07-11-2010, 08:29 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 08:20 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:52 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:29 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 02:41 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: Obedience to civil authority is an obligation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm

Civil authority is of God, not by any revelation or positive institution, but by the mere fact that God is the Author of Nature, and Nature imperatively requires civil authority to be set up and obeyed.

God....bind(s) men in conscience to observe the behests of the State within the sphere of its competence.

A government agency is the one who bans it usually. It is regulated by the FDA. Is the FDA our government?

Is there a legitimate distinction between "the government" and "a government agency"?  When you pay taxes, do you say "I'm not paying taxes to the government, I am paying taxes to the IRS?".
Government agencies like the FDA can make regulations without following the process of government.

To put it this way, the FDA can classify and reclassify various substances by its own decision. It is making law and enforcing it, without following the government as defined in the US Constitution. Also, income tax is also forbidden by the US Constitution.

Not as amended however.   :tiphat:

I wouldn't call that an "amendment" though.
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#37
(07-11-2010, 08:32 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 08:29 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 08:20 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:52 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 07:29 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(07-11-2010, 02:41 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: Obedience to civil authority is an obligation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm

Civil authority is of God, not by any revelation or positive institution, but by the mere fact that God is the Author of Nature, and Nature imperatively requires civil authority to be set up and obeyed.

God....bind(s) men in conscience to observe the behests of the State within the sphere of its competence.

A government agency is the one who bans it usually. It is regulated by the FDA. Is the FDA our government?

Is there a legitimate distinction between "the government" and "a government agency"?  When you pay taxes, do you say "I'm not paying taxes to the government, I am paying taxes to the IRS?".
Government agencies like the FDA can make regulations without following the process of government.

To put it this way, the FDA can classify and reclassify various substances by its own decision. It is making law and enforcing it, without following the government as defined in the US Constitution. Also, income tax is also forbidden by the US Constitution.

Not as amended however.   :tiphat:

I wouldn't call that an "amendment" though.

Oh, golly.  :bubbles:
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#38
(07-10-2010, 11:45 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: It is only used because it is addicting. All else is after the fact justification.

You can't get addicted to marijuana.  You can become psychologically dependent, but you can't become chemically dependent on it.
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#39
(07-11-2010, 02:49 AM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: Cigarettes and the like do not make people feel good unless it is sating an addiction.

Tobacco in moderation offers a pleasant buzz.  You don't need to be addicted to nicotine to enjoy that.
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#40
(07-11-2010, 08:06 AM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: yes but isnt ingestion by inhalation through the lungs UN AVOIDABLY physically damaging...no matter how natural or pure the leaf being burned?

Ingestion of a pint by drinking is UNAVOIDABLY physically damaging to the brain and the liver.  Lifting weights is UNAVOIDABLY physically damaging to the muscle fibers being exercised.  The issue here is not that physical damage occurs, but the level to which it occurs.  Neither in moderate weight lifting, nor in moderate drinking, nor in moderate tobacco smoking, nor in moderate marijuana smoking are the various forms of physical damage irreversible.  The body's natural ability to heal itself quickly recovers from any damage caused by these activities, done in moderation of course.
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