"In many ways, the American experience is all about forgetting"
#21
Arturo's basically dumped scholasticism in favor of his method7n which centers on deep folk catholicism, neo-platoninism and who knows what else. He's wild about Ficino, and well, like all kinds of oeople who eschew struicture provided by philosophia perennis, he's lost in a dark forest of occult romanticism.
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#22
Arturo's response to that, Augustine, would be that Platonism is part of the "philosophia perennis."  In fact, if anything, his error lies in the direction of what is called Perennialism. 
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#23
(07-14-2010, 04:53 PM)Robert De Brus Wrote: And something that the descendants of later immigrants often forget is we do have a locally grown English Catholic culture, of which I come from, in Maryland.

I would welcome greater celebration of this culture, but in a way, it seems to have vanished. I grew up in Baltimore (and became a Catholic there, for that matter), and it seemed to me was there nothing in the way of a living "English Catholic" tradition, whatever that might be. I mean, I guess the Catholic members of the Society of the Ark and Dove might represent some effort at preserving that, but otherwise, what is there?
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#24
(07-15-2010, 01:26 AM)Bonifacius Wrote: I mean, every Catholic knows how to recognize St. Anthony's statue and we all love him dearly.  But almost no lay person knows when he lived, where Padua is, that he actually wasn't from Padua, or what he ever did in life to become so popular.  He is "just" a saint -- his life on earth is irrelevant.  All that matters is that he's up in Heaven now getting stuff done for us.  And that's enough to merit our everlasting love and admiration.  Folk Catholicism in a good sense, I'd say. 

An interesting thought.

For some Catholics, though, like myself, that kind of approach to the faith is a luxury we just can't afford. We don't live in isolated communities where everyone is a devout Catholic by default. We live in places where serious Catholics are only as common as serious Hindus; where evangelical Protestantism and secular humanism (and perhaps Islam, depending on where you live) are the major combatants for people's minds and souls. If you don't read up on the history, doctrine and apologetics of your faith, you're going to be a casualty in the war.
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#25
(07-15-2010, 02:38 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: An interesting thought.

For some Catholics, though, like myself, that kind of approach to the faith is a luxury we just can't afford. We don't live in isolated communities where everyone is a devout Catholic by default. We live in places where serious Catholics are only as common as serious Hindus; where evangelical Protestantism and secular humanism (and perhaps Islam, depending on where you live) are the major combatants for people's minds and souls. If you don't read up on the history, doctrine and apologetics of your faith, you're going to be a casualty in the war.

Well, in case you were implying that the folk Catholicism to which I referred was part and parcel of some integrally Catholic culture (?), I certainly don't come from a very Catholic part of the country (Northwestern Illinois).  I had only one Catholic grandmother and her family was from a more integrally (German) Catholic part of Iowa.  For instance, the family recited some litany or other before every meal.  I got my Catholicism from my mother.  Other than some cheap statues of the Blessed Virgin and St. Joseph and some very fine Stations of the Cross, there were no images of saints in our parish church, which was a former "Church of God" building one town over.  So the non-intellectual folk Catholicism (if that's the right term for it) to which I referred doesn't require a more pervasive culture.  I was just testifying to how Catholicism is passed down very informally within your average Novus Ordo family.  Of course more is needed, but I'm happy for the numerous discoveries in my grandmother's upstairs (a veritable treasure, as another poster said).  It's also nice that St. Anthony, for instance, occupies a psychological and emotional place where he doesn't have to justify his canonization to us -- his intercession speaks for him. 
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#26
I grew up a fanatical (and very hypocritical) Papist in a very mainstream Methodist/Lutheran part of the country.  So I sought out the non-denominationalist Protestants and the Jehovah's Witnesses, the only ones who cared for controversy. 
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#27
More on "folk Catholicism" -- my mother taught me the Our Father, the Hail Mary, the Sign of the Cross, and the Guardian Angel Prayer when I was maybe four or five.  I didn't learn the Rosary & hence the Hail Holy Queen until I was in I think the third or fourth grade of C.C.D. class.  To this day, whenever I say the Hail Holy Queen I think of it as a distinctly secondary prayer as it was not one of the first ones I learned. 
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#28
(07-15-2010, 02:37 AM)WilfredLeblanc Wrote:
(07-14-2010, 04:53 PM)Robert De Brus Wrote: And something that the descendants of later immigrants often forget is we do have a locally grown English Catholic culture, of which I come from, in Maryland.

I would welcome greater celebration of this culture, but in a way, it seems to have vanished. I grew up in Baltimore (and became a Catholic there, for that matter), and it seemed to me was there nothing in the way of a living "English Catholic" tradition, whatever that might be. I mean, I guess the Catholic members of the Society of the Ark and Dove might represent some effort at preserving that, but otherwise, what is there?

Although I am separated from it by several generations, it still exists in the rural hill country of Maryland, with families such as the Mudds; it was once strong near the border of Virginia.  In fact, if you want to get a fair picture of what English American Catholicism in Maryland was, just take a gander at the people who were caught up in the Lincoln plot (which, in fact, some Unionist briefly referred to it as another 'Popish Plot').  But I suspect you are mostly right;  you see the remnants of it in the early Churches that reflect an English colonial style.  Its near extinction is quite sad to me. 
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#29
(07-13-2010, 09:52 PM)Vasquez  Wrote: If the Catholic ghetto of yesteryear is dead and buried, then where can we learn these things if not from books, EWTN, Web sites, and so forth?

While acknowledging the objection, I would at the very least exhort the reader to reach out to other, less conventional sources when arguing about tradition. Perhaps one could go to an elderly relative, an old devotional book, or an ethnic festival where vestiges of the old ways can be seen. Perhaps we have to begin to acknowledge once again that to be Catholic is to venerate old things precisely because they are old. Tradition is not convenient, and it may not even seem tasteful. But like many old things, it can be wise.

We learn these things in traditional Catholic chapels that stubbornly cling to the old ways.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#30
I wouldn't say I've renounced scholasticism per se:

http://tinyurl.com/38uonzo
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