Holy Father Says Old Mass Privately Says Bishop Fellay
(07-17-2010, 09:57 PM)Robert De Brus Wrote:  
You believe in the Siri Thesis?  I understand there are two versions of it now, one, that some believe he wouldnt accept the Papacy; or, that he did but was 'secret' Pope for 30+ years. 

I tend to believe what Fr. Malachi Martin said on the matter,  Siri won the votes in at least one Conclave and chose not to accept it.  So, I believe if Fr. Martin was correct, that  Siri was never Pope, but it was his for the taking had he accepted it. 
Malachi Martin said "the little brutality" was used to get Cardinal Siri to decline the papacy. As I understand it he was put under duress to decline according to Martin.
I don't think anyone can say they believe that Siri was the true pope from that point as there is little info other than Fr Martin statements and an FBI document. It would certainly explain a lot, in fact the same thing happened before on at least one occasion.

Do you know for a fact that its not true?
How did Fr. Martin find out about Cardinal Siri supposedly declining the Papacy?  Who broke the seal of the conclave?  If they believed it was right to break the conclave's seal to tell Fr. Martin, then why wasn't this made more public?  Surely of all those Cardinals who voted for Cardinal Siri (if this theory is true) at least some would have publicly defended him.
Fr. Martin was made a Cardinal in secreto by Pius XII, so he was probably in the conclave himself.  :sneaky:
(07-18-2010, 01:18 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Fr. Martin was made a Cardinal in secreto by Pius XII, so he was probably in the conclave himself.   :sneaky:


Are we entirely sure Fr. Martin wasn't elected to the Papacy?  :P
(07-18-2010, 01:18 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Fr. Martin was made a Cardinal in secreto by Pius XII

In pectore, actually.
Do people believe that Fr. Martin was made a Cardinal by Pius XII?  I thought that was a joke, but wanted to double check...
Regarding the original topic, I won't believe it until I see it. It's actually a fairly complicated thing to be a bi-ritualist. It's not merely one form or the other, but a matter of using two separate liturgical calendars. For a Pope with a lot on his plate, it would be difficult to keep track of.
Here's a little about the US after the war. There were no jobs for the boys, they went on unemployment and cabaret'ed their asses off. The US rocked at least in Big Cities. Every night was VE or VJ day. People that did not go to war had dough and they spent it and were kind to any and all servicemen.We owned saloons and bookie joints. Just think fun with a capital F.
We were joyful we had vanquished EVIL whose name was Hitler. America had swagger and we were certain we could fix anything including the Commies real soon. This vanity or pride created the blind spot, and we fell head long into the hole. Instead of keeping small t tradition we moved to burbia. It broke families ties and made us Catholics just like the Prots, nuclearated families.  This motion took down the institutions like Catholic Grammar Schools and Catholic High School. Neighborhoods changed and families then didn't want to send their kids to schools which were now in old tough neighborhoods. At first burbia was near in, and a bad copy of the cities, but they expanded and ruined the fabric of society, leaving large spaces between people, making organized activities necessary for the kids, and every where the ubiquitous car or van. It's like a balloon when it's first blown up it is large and holds it shape but after time it is shriveled and can not hold it is shape. Suburbia produced the liberal hippie. It produced the yuppie, which returned to the city, it has sent millions of kids to University to lose their morals. Like Lewis Black says "they go their to get their moral compasses slashed".

This process which I have sketched in the broadest of pencil strokes is as much to blame as anything. It has been put in place to keep the fall going. The only way to go back is to end all this stuff. No more Suburbia. period. Oh it could be changed into sattelite cities with space in between but urban sprawl must end. We need small t. We need whole families to live in a neighborhood or a town. Where uncle Thaddeus who has a bad leg is picked up by his nephew whacky whillie in his 1981 comet and takes him to Mass, while Uncle Thaddeus  tells him cool stories about his mother's mother making fertilizer bombs to remove stumps and nearly blowing up the house. Catholics have a narrative which can show case the principles which they live by. This wont work for the nuclear family it is a one-off and everytime it needs to re-invent Catholicism.

my 0.02
(07-18-2010, 01:21 PM)3Sanctus Wrote:
(07-18-2010, 01:18 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Fr. Martin was made a Cardinal in secreto by Pius XII, so he was probably in the conclave himself.   :sneaky:


Are we entirely sure Fr. Martin wasn't elected to the Papacy?   :P

He was asked one time what he would do if elected to the papacy.  He laughed and then plotted out a strategy of getting out of Rome and spending actual time in the hot spots of the Catholic world in order to get a line on where the people were religiously.  The next thing he would do is by himself and a few trusted aid, go through all 16 documents of Vatican II and delineate the real meaning behind them in accordance with tradition.  He also said, no leader, political or religious would be allowed to be on equal footing with him.  He would disappear as a person behind what he called "the amber of the papacy"  in order to let the power of the keys of Peter be used to their fullest.  If I recall correctly  he said he would also free the TLM and get rid of the Novus Ordo. 

He then added he would need a bulletproof jacket and a food taster. 


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