How to address a Muslimah
#11
(07-24-2010, 12:13 AM)kimbaichan Wrote: My very good friend's sister is a convert from Catholic to Muslim. If you're in the South you know that makes her almost family. When she comes to the house I hide the alcohol and the pork. Why? What other example could I give of Christian charity? In my heart of hearts I'd like to say, "You Christ-denying piece of crap" but what good would that do? It's about the exact opposite of what I'm commanded to do by Jesus Christ. If I'm to show an example of Christian charity I can't act how I want, I can only do what God commands. What do you do when God doesn't ask for your blood, instead he asks you to lay down your sense of pride?

Hiding it is not necessary. If you wanted to be most polite, just refraining from serving it would be enough. The existence of differences shouldn't be hidden (in fact, they should be flaunted a bit).
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#12
What you are actually doing is respecting her religion.  Islam doesn't deserve respect.  I'd say you are closer to offending God than your friend.  Would you put on a burka if her boyfriend comes over?  No, probably not.  And why not?  It's sufficient not to offer her pork or alcohol.
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#13
There's no reason (even from her point of view) to hide things that are haram.  It's simply not necessary - she can see them, she just can't have them.

As for calling people names...I just can't see Jesus looking down at any of His creations from the cross and cursing at them.  Rather, I see him looking down at any of us who stray - whether a Catholic who is not in a state of grace or a heretic/schismastic/apostate - and, with tears in His eyes, asking us to come home.  While God's justice is swift and strict, his mercy is just as strong - they both play a role - and he loves each and every one of us.

Don't encourage her to be Muslim, but don't think of her that way.  If Jesus cursed us whenever we were not in a state of grace, then we'd all be in much bigger trouble.
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#14
I think you're doing the right thing both by moving the bacon and leaving the religious statues where they are.  Religion isn't about bacon or booze.  If it makes someone uncomfortable, and becomes an obstacle to setting a good example, etc., put them away.   If the bacon doesn't make her uncomfortable - and it probably wouldn't is my guess - leave it where it is.

The problem is not that she rejects bacon, the problem is her belonging to a false religion.  The problem is in her brain and heart, not in her menu.   Facilitate her menu for peace among men; don't facilitate her erroneous thoughts, and you aren't, so I think you're doing fine.

ETA:

A polite host / hostess makes their guests feel as comfortable as reasonable - denying my religion by removing a crucifix is not reasonable, menu changes are.  Even though I eat meat, I have non-meat / non-dairy food for vegetarians when they are at my house, kosher for Jews, etc.  I've been to non-Catholic houses and they see me avoiding the meat main course and ask, so I tell them, and they've whipped up some tuna fish salad for me to be accommodating.

Maybe it's the Italian in me - a guest is to be treated with respect as much as one is able to.  Whether it is a family friend or a plumber, a Muslim or a Scientologist,  anyone who comes in my home is a guest and made to feel comfortable, fed, etc.
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#15
(07-24-2010, 01:42 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: Maybe it's the Italian in me - a guest is to be treated with respect as much as one is able to.  Whether it is a family friend or a plumber, a Muslim or a Scientologist,  anyone who comes in my home is a guest and made to feel comfortable, fed, etc.

:amen:
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#16
(07-24-2010, 06:23 AM)Credo Wrote:
kimbaichan Wrote:My very good friend's sister is a convert from Catholic to Muslim. If you're in the South you know that makes her almost family. When she comes to the house I hide the alcohol and the pork. Why? What other example could I give of Christian charity? In my heart of hearts I'd like to say, "You Christ-denying piece of crap" but what good would that do? It's about the exact opposite of what I'm commanded to do by Jesus Christ. If I'm to show an example of Christian charity I can't act how I want, I can only do what God commands. What do you do when God doesn't ask for your blood, instead he asks you to lay down your sense of pride?

and

karyn_anne Wrote:Argh, horrid....i don't blame you for that "Christ-denying piece of crap" thought that you have at all. I know that without God's grace we would all fall into mortal sin in a hurry but I cannot believe how one can know the Catholic Church and then become of all things, a muslim. The only thing worse will be a satanist.

I would personally leave the pork and alcohol lying around, really. Its YOUR house. Who cares about what she thinks? Will she remove her prayer mat or remember to cook fish on fridays when you visit her house? I don't expect any muslim to be shocked at pork loin thawing in my sink when they visit, and I live in South-East Asia.

I suggest trying to talk about religion and Catholicism if possible.

There is no sense of pride involved here. We have the true faith, and she is not going to save her soul at all unless she returns to the Catholic faith. We have every right to be proud of our faith, indignant when it comes to error and worried for her salvation even as we remain charitable.

Ah, proselytizing religions have the most amusing internet threads.

How about this, how about you treat her with respect and dignity as a sister in humanity, and if the Holy Spirit puts it on her heart to talk with you about Christianity she will?

goodness....i said leave the pork loin in the sink, but not cook pork for her.

Credo: dignity means not going overboard to cater to an error. I can't see why she cannot be comfortable with the alcohol and crucifixes and statues around. She is in a Catholic home that sees nothing wrong with pork or alcohol.

If a guest is going to stay at someone's house you would expect them to be somewhat grateful and not ask too much. Change the menu, but its kind of going overboard to expect your hosts to throw out the bacon and Baileys. Of course you would give her nice sheets and the best possible bed and food as part of Catholic charity, but she knows that she will be staying at a non-muslim home.

Even if you throw out the "haram" or forbidden stuff the fact that you would have kept pork on the fridge shelf would sort of contaminate everything else that is put there to a certain extent. Your kitchen is also not "halal" and many muslims i know would avoid eating anything from a non-halal kitchen as far as possible. If she accepts the invitation to have a meal at your house, then she would already know that you would have had (or still have!) pork lying around.
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#17
The problem is not that she is a moslem.  The problem is that she apostacized from the Faith.  Why do you even let her into your house?  You are throwing your pearls before swine.  Cast her out and have nothing to do with her.  Read what St. Paul had to say about this.  Or read some of the early Church Fathers about what to do with apostates.

Now if she was just a plain moslem, and came to my house, I would not hide pork or beer.  It's my house.
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#18
karyn_anne Wrote:Credo: dignity means not going overboard to cater to an error. I can't see why she cannot be comfortable with the alcohol and crucifixes and statues around. She is in a Catholic home that sees nothing wrong with pork or alcohol.

I never said anything about alcohol, crucifixes and statues. Keep them around. Whatever.

It is the attitude that some Catholics on this thread - in their heart, no less - believe that Muslims are "Christ-denying piece(s) of crap" which is disagreeable. The same Christians who mouth platitudes about Christ loving all men, and dying for everyone, these same people believe - again, in their heart - that others are "piece(s) of crap" for what they hold. The same Christians who don't even know their own religion, nor their own book, nor their own history, these same people dare to not only dismiss other religions off hand, but they go futher and contradict their own religion (cf. Gen. 1 & Mt. 5).
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#19
(07-25-2010, 10:22 PM)Credo Wrote: It is the attitude that some Catholics on this thread - in their heart, no less - believe that Muslims are "Christ-denying piece(s) of crap" which is disagreeable.

Her friend is an ex-catholic, an apostate. That much is true. Her culpability is greater than a cradle muslim's.
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#20
Quis is right, we must extend our hospitality to any guest, although I wouldn't go as far as hiding the pork or alcohol - after all, I'm not a muslim, so she shouldn't expect me to get rid of stuff that is normally in my house, even if it is haram.  I wouldn't serve these things to her, nor would I consume them while she's there either, but the pork stays in the freezer, and the beer and booze in their respective locations.
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