Bp W Column: "University" Wasteland
#11
If I was going to college other than a seminary I would want to go to Hillsdale College...They don't take a dime of government money...

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp

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#12
A grown man, speaking to other grown men no less, just spelled sex, "s-x?" This must be a joke.

Williamson is right on modern education, but he should have avoided generalizations and written a longer post. I'm entering my sixth year of undergraduate and graduate studies and I never had a professor tell me to go out and sleep around or hit-up the nearest nightclub.
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#13
(07-24-2010, 04:01 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(07-24-2010, 03:52 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: The Humanities must be restored, because they deal with the basics of human existence, what is right, good and true. The natural sciences, specific and derivative, must remain secondary. They cannot take priority of the Humanities. Let parents send their boys to these "universities" to get a job, but not to learn anything truly useful."

Maybe I just drank too much coffee this morning and can't grasp what he's really trying to say (are boys supposed to go to college....or not??) but his saying that everyone should study humanities and that science should remain secondary is overly simplistic. Humanities are important, but some people are scientists, mathematicians, etc., and would be bored silly and wasting their time reading Milton for four years instead of preparing for their future.

One thing I DO like about B. Williamson is his emphasis on literature and humanities as a foundation for society, lest anyone accuse me of mud-slinging. Too much philosophy and abstraction going around these days.

Humanities used to be about learning. People used to go to university to become a well rounded, well educated person. I think that what Bp's saying is that now young men should go to university only to learn a trade. Because the rest is garbage.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#14
(07-24-2010, 07:41 PM)glgas Wrote: My son was in a state University getting technical degrees in the nineties, and he learned a lot. Neither was he deceived either by immorality or by moral relativism. He go bachelor degree from Math and Computer Engineering, Master degree from Computer Engineering.

Would this accurately describe your son's experience? 

"As for the students, many more of them than one would think are yearning for something, but they are no longer looking to their "university" for truth. If they want a "Degree", it is only to get a job, and if they seek a good "Degree", it is only to get a better-paying job.  Rarely will they discuss ideas."

So what are the CAUSES of the university being turned into such a purely utilitarian processor of information to serve the established system ?  The Professor says, " The basic cause is the loss of God, resulting from several centuries of war on the Incarnation. Then education no longer means providing a truth or morality to live by, but rather developing one's potential to be different and better than anyone else."
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#15
  Speaking from my own current experience at a University, I have not ultimately had such problems as described in the Bishop’s article…While there are a whole lot of issues and problems in the modern educational university system (and I have had to deal with some of them…) that doesn’t mean that everything about it, especially in relation to the individual student is going to be horrible and useless. As others have said above, such generalization can be too general. Basically, everyone’s experience is going to be different- based on the individual, the university, the program/field of study, the professors, etc.
    Though I do believe the university and often its atmosphere could be very dangerous to some souls, for others it can be a source of strengthening of the Faith, by a greater understanding of the world and its people- for good or ill, not to mention the possible learning and development of knowledge and skills. I have even known of a number of cases where young women intending to pursue a religious vocation have been advised to attend college by the Superiors of the order (both of the Society Sisters and the Dominicans), this to possibly give the young women a necessary exposure to the world, to avoid being too sheltered, and to give further understanding where needed.
  If one has had a solid and sincere foundation in the Faith and is fully intending to follow God’s will, college should not be a definite danger- it may actually be the saving grace whether for the student’s soul or for those they may come in contact with… God gives each person what they can handle according to their state in life and vocation!
  I have great respect for the Bishop and realize his wisdom but do not totally agree with this view in general and think it could be misleading...
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#16
"University"...I'll have to give them a better name than that...


at any rate...there is no need for a properly formed person not to attend in order to get the paper he talks about..the "degree"...to get a job or what ever.


This is not a problem for many home schoolers who already have a good portion of what would have been university before the devolution.  It becomes more problematic for Skrewled children...but if formed well, there is still not much of a problem unless you are asked to do something wayward such as be force to perform abortions in Med school in a particular state or city.....mostly this is not the case.


Most folk who go into these institutions can discern the foolishness as it come out the teacher or prof's mouth --- the scourage of Professor LOL and Mullah bin Credo.

It was my experience even recently getting my RN that many of the students, young and old did not but the evolution bit, indeed the better students did not, and this applied to prots as well.


So while big name unis are hell holes of intellect, there is no reason you can't learn something there.  It is also my experience,,,and others that I know, that a community college has just high an academic instruction level as and nose in the air high brow east coast school or religious name brand school...

So save money....home school to avoid the poison of the mullah bins...and go to community college to avoid the much of the liberal BS...

Then finish off at a 4 year or more if you must...
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#17
The point is that universities are no longer (in most cases) the place where universals are taught, which is what universities are supposed to be.  Universities are now places where training takes place...and that's ok (just as Bishop Williamson states) if that's what one is after.  Nowadays, we may go to university to attain a specific type of knowledge, but we do not expect to come away as truly--in the truest sense--educated.  Today when we speak of someone being educated it does not mean what it once did.  I think Bishop Williamson is saying that so long as we keep that in mind and don't wrongly assume that a university degree is proof that we are in fact educated (in the true sense), then all's well.  I suspect that most folks here already know this, so this piece doesn't really add anything new.  So, lay out the dough if one can afford it and needs the degree for employment, but don't blow the dough expecting to get an education.   
:dunce:
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#18
(07-24-2010, 10:38 PM)PetereVeritatem33 Wrote:     Though I do believe the university and often its atmosphere could be very dangerous to some souls, for others it can be a source of strengthening of the Faith, by a greater understanding of the world and its people- for good or ill, not to mention the possible learning and development of knowledge and skills. I have even known of a number of cases where young women intending to pursue a religious vocation have been advised to attend college by the Superiors of the order (both of the Society Sisters and the Dominicans), this to possibly give the young women a necessary exposure to the world, to avoid being too sheltered, and to give further understanding where needed.
   

Fr. Malachi Martin talked about that as part of the undermining of the great religious orders.  He said his generation of Jesuits (born in the early 1920's) were told to start attending secular Universities.  The were told the idea was to hear what the other side had to say.  (He said parenthetically,"... as if we didn't already know or couldn't find out from simply attending their lectures or reading their books." )  But it had the effect of introducing worldliness into the Church in the religious orders. 
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#19
(07-24-2010, 03:52 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: As for the REMEDIES  the Professor says, "These "universities" can hardly get out of the trap they have fallen into. To learn something genuinely useful a boy is better off at home, or talking to priests or going on a Retreat. Faithful Catholics must do things for themselves, and band together to re-build institutions of their own, starting maybe with summer schools. The Humanities must be restored, because they deal with the basics of human existence, what is right, good and true. The natural sciences, specific and derivative, must remain secondary. They cannot take priority of the Humanities. Let parents send their boys to these "universities" to get a job, but not to learn anything truly useful."

This makes me think of Cardinal Newman's The Idea of a University.  Even though it was written over a century ago, it is still relevant.  Here is a link for anyone interested in this topic: http://www.newmanreader.org/works/idea/
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#20
Also, it's possible that you get out of your education what you put into it.  In other words, if one goes to university and spends his time drinking beer, playing video games and watching tv, he can probably get by with a C average, whereas if he had applied himself and studied, he could've had A's.  So, a person with a Bachelors who seems undereducated may not be the fault of his university, but his own laziness.  The guy that graduates last in his class still gets the MD.  Just sayin.
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