Creation came 'from nothing,' not God: Stephen Hawking
#11
You know what guys ? Sometimes I know my subtle humor and irony is lost on you guys . I suggest you take it easy put your feet up and read 6 Archie and Jughead comics, and then 6 Casper the friendly ghost comics, too.  :laughing:
tim
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#12
(09-05-2010, 02:28 AM)Lagrange Wrote: And even supposing (philosophically) such a state of affairs, it doesn't explain away the need for a First Cause. St Thomas' argument works even if you suppose the universe is eternal with no 'beginning point'.

Yes. My point was that they think a cycle will negate the need for a First Cause. It is easy for us to conceptualise it if we fool ourselves (we can envision cycles, but all the cycles we know involve a beginning).
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#13
(09-05-2010, 12:15 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(09-05-2010, 02:28 AM)Lagrange Wrote: And even supposing (philosophically) such a state of affairs, it doesn't explain away the need for a First Cause. St Thomas' argument works even if you suppose the universe is eternal with no 'beginning point'.

Yes. My point was that they think a cycle will negate the need for a First Cause. It is easy for us to conceptualise it if we fool ourselves (we can envision cycles, but all the cycles we know involve a beginning).

But at least they don't try to explain how that matter and energy came to be. They just assert that it existed and whether intending to deny a Beginning or not, they don't address the question.

What Hawking does is suggest that a non-animate thing (the Universe) was self-creative. That at some point it began, and before this point it was not. And it was its own efficient cause. That's almost as insane as what passes for Theology these days.
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#14
(09-03-2010, 01:24 PM)City Smurf Wrote: I'll begin listening to scientists after they have a complete working knowledge of everything on the earth never mind the universe..

A big fish in a little pond this Hawking- but still he is a little man.

Job 38: 4: "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.
5: Who determined its measurements -- surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

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#15
(09-05-2010, 02:49 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: What Hawking does is suggest that a non-animate thing (the Universe) was self-creative.

This is what they've suggested for a long time; they just didn't usually say it because it sounds stupid.
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#16

'Hawking, who is renowned for his work on black holes, said the 1992 discovery of another planet orbiting a star other than the sun makes "the coincidences of our planetary conditions ... far less remarkable and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings."

That does kind of make me think though.  If there are millions of other planets out there obiting their own suns what relevance with Christianity have for possible inhabitants of such planets?  Christianity would seem to be a home-grown thing which would apply to planet Earth but not across the entire universe.
And if there are no other intelligent beings out there,  it seems like an awful waste of space (as I think Carl Sagan said).

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#17
(09-05-2010, 03:18 PM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
(09-05-2010, 02:49 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: What Hawking does is suggest that a non-animate thing (the Universe) was self-creative.

This is what they've suggested for a long time; they just didn't usually say it because it sounds stupid.

This is what they've wanted to say for a long time. Indeed it not only sounds stupid, it is.

But most were not heroically stupid enough to propose it, so instead they just never addressed the question of Creation, preferring to suggest there was no beginning (at least as far as we could examine). Despite his intelligence, Hawking is apparently, not that intelligent.
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#18
(09-05-2010, 03:20 PM)richness of tradition Wrote: And if there are no other intelligent beings out there,  it seems like an awful waste of space (as I think Carl Sagan said).

Read Job 38: http://www.drbo.org/chapter/20038.htm

Why is it a waste? God created the universe. It is nothing to him. He made it this way because God is all powerful. If we could not be wowed by what He made for us, would He be higher than us? God counts every blade of grass. If it exists, God knows it. There are no limits to God.
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#19
Quote:“Philosophy is dead. It has not kept up with modern developments in science, particularly in physics. As a result scientists have become the bearers of the torch of discovery in our quest for knowledge.”

gotta love that statement from him
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#20
I'm astonished that he would advance a claim that is so patently absurd, and flying in the face of every known observation about virtually anything.

I suppose that if you've decided to pass on the the true religion you're doomed to make up a cheap imitation for yourself.
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