Bp W Column: Vocations-Wherefrom?
#11
(10-03-2010, 11:41 PM)cgraye Wrote:
(10-03-2010, 11:25 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: In brief, engineers may be better paid than philosophers, but the clip-clear nature of their work - on-off, zero-one - will disincline them to take any interest in the human, all too human, complications of religion or politics. Ideally, one might be a technician by day and a poet by night, but in reality it is difficult to lead a life divided between such opposites, says Robert, and a man will normally lose interest in one or the other.

As an engineer, I have to take exception this.  It is true neither of myself nor of my coworkers, most of whom have a serious interest in politics, religion, history, and so on.

Agreed.  The essence of an engineer is that he wants to know how things work.  That makes Catholicism a good fit, since it encourages us to use our intellect to understand God's plan as much as we're able.  True, we can't ever know everything, but we can learn a lot.  I suspect St. Thomas Aquinas would have made a good engineer, since he tackled theology with an engineer's attitude: "how does religion work?"  Any engineer could appreciate the Baltimore Catechism: question and answer, question and answer.

Now, it's true that the modern Church hierarchy, with its vague teachings and ad-libbed liturgy, won't appeal much to an engineer.  But that's a different thing from traditional Catholicism, with its specific creeds and detailed (scientific?) organization of things like virtues and vices.
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#12
Gerard, but without those skills I'd never had been there and no one would have said it.

Mohran, here's another little bit. God creates ex nihilo. Us humans are made in His image and likeness. He has set us here with dominion over the earth, all of the plants, and all animals. Like a son who put Dad's hat on and walks around the house we make things imitating our Father.

This has come over the years and it is not something from a book but from experience. Farmers in the day could fix farm machinery with bailing wire and old parts stripped from unusable machinery. The first submarine was made by a machinist. The pick and place units we use every where even to change software come from machinery that was invented to slot screws and refined in the companies which used them.

In short we are made to make things, and America's success comes directly from those guys on the shop floor or in the tool room where these ideas were born and refined. This progressive notion that separates the design from the manufacture is doomed to fail. This is part of the progressive notion that all need college education.

Liberal Arts in the strict sense of reading the classics in Humanities is noble but should be reserved for the few very extra bright. It ain't for all of us. Priests, Philosophers, Theologians to name some need this but that ain't a big percentage of people.

If the chastisement is as bad as I think it will be and I'm here after that. The guys I'd be looking for to start civilization are guys like these here and hopefully my millwrights, tool makers, machinists, welders, mechanical engineers, programmers, electrical engineers, etc.

It will be a few hundred years till we got back to reading the Iliad.
tim
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#13
(10-04-2010, 02:00 PM)timoose Wrote: Gerard, but without those skills I'd never had been there and no one would have said it.

Mohran, here's another little bit. God creates ex nihilo. Us humans are made in His image and likeness. He has set us here with dominion over the earth, all of the plants, and all animals. Like a son who put Dad's hat on and walks around the house we make things imitating our Father.

This has come over the years and it is not something from a book but from experience. Farmers in the day could fix farm machinery with bailing wire and old parts stripped from unusable machinery. The first submarine was made by a machinist. The pick and place units we use every where even to change software come from machinery that was invented to slot screws and refined in the companies which used them.

In short we are made to make things, and America's success comes directly from those guys on the shop floor or in the tool room where these ideas were born and refined. This progressive notion that separates the design from the manufacture is doomed to fail. This is part of the progressive notion that all need college education.

Liberal Arts in the strict sense of reading the classics in Humanities is noble but should be reserved for the few very extra bright. It ain't for all of us. Priests, Philosophers, Theologians to name some need this but that ain't a big percentage of people.

If the chastisement is as bad as I think it will be and I'm here after that. The guys I'd be looking for to start civilization are guys like these here and hopefully my millwrights, tool makers, machinists, welders, mechanical engineers, programmers, electrical engineers, etc.

It will be a few hundred years till we got back to reading the Iliad.
tim

You think you know more than you do.
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#14
This is an interesting discussion.  As an engineer who took may liberal arts classes in college, I found may times that a background in science and engineering is an immense help in fields such as philosophy and logic.  Science and math teach you how to think logically, and the ability to construct and follow a logical argument is helpful in slicing through some of the "fuzziness" in the humanities.  Many engineers that I know (myself included) have a much greater interest in subjects like philosophy and history than non-engineers that I work with.

On the other hand, I see Bp. Williamson's larger point.  The idea that education is primarily about "learning a trade" is a very protestant idea.  The traditional Catholic concept of education is far broader, and there is much more to being "educated" than being able to perform a skill.  In this day and age, however, given the cost of education, it does seem impractical to focus one's studies in the humanities (especially if one hopes to provide for a family someday).  The reflexive liberalism of the academic establishment in the humanities is even more of a reason to avoid that area.
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#15
(10-04-2010, 02:00 PM)timoose Wrote: It will be a few hundred years till we got back to reading the Iliad.
tim

Not much time to read the Illiad when there's a field to be tending, or clothes to be washing, or animals to be rearing, etc, etc, etc...
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#16
Augie, baby prove it !
tim
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#17
(10-04-2010, 04:06 PM)timoose Wrote: Augie, baby prove it !
tim

I'm not your augie baby, you bloated carcass.

You don't have any idea what the liberal arts are and probably wouldn't know it if it were even an abandoned and slightly rancid keg of beer on your door step.
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#18
(10-04-2010, 07:24 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(10-04-2010, 04:06 PM)timoose Wrote: Augie, baby prove it !
tim

I'm not your augie baby, you bloated carcass.

You don't have any idea what the liberal arts are and probably wouldn't know it if it were even an abandoned and slightly rancid keg of beer on your door step.

You sound like you're bitter that you never got a decent paying job out of college, after getting your degree in communications.

Maybe learn to be a bit kinder, especially to your elders.
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#19
(10-04-2010, 08:01 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(10-04-2010, 07:24 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(10-04-2010, 04:06 PM)timoose Wrote: Augie, baby prove it !
tim

I'm not your augie baby, you bloated carcass.

You don't have any idea what the liberal arts are and probably wouldn't know it if it were even an abandoned and slightly rancid keg of beer on your door step.

You sound like you're bitter that you never got a decent paying job out of college, after getting your degree in communications.

Maybe learn to be a bit kinder, especially to your elders.

And you know slightly less than he does. 
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#20
Never fear Augie, I'm so familiar with beer I'd never let rancid beer pass my lips. I do have a question though is your pretend name Augstine Baker derived from the Saint and Josephine Baker ? I've been curious from the beginning.
Zum lieben Augstine,
tim
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