Is Christian Unity possible?
#11
(10-06-2010, 05:47 AM)Lagrange Wrote:
(10-05-2010, 07:21 AM)glgas Wrote: Jesus Christ prayed for it. His will is creative.

Primarily, I would see this already fulfilled in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Only secondary is it a prayer 'awaiting fulfillment' in some way (in all the differing epochs of A.D.), not only concerning heretics and schismatics, but also lack of charity amongst Catholics.

Yes. Pope Pius XI has declared that the belief that the unity of God's Church is something lacking in fulfillment is a false opinion.

Not every one of these persons claim each element of this, because different persons are uncomfortable with advancing this doctrine too far as a result of where it obviously leads.

Mortalium Animos Wrote:7. And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends. For authors who favor this view are accustomed, times almost without number, to bring forward these words of Christ: "That they all may be one.... And there shall be one fold and one shepherd,"[14] with this signification however: that Christ Jesus merely expressed a desire and prayer, which still lacks its fulfillment. For they are of the opinion that the unity of faith and government, which is a note of the one true Church of Christ, has hardly up to the present time existed, and does not to-day exist. They consider that this unity may indeed be desired and that it may even be one day attained through the instrumentality of wills directed to a common end, but that meanwhile it can only be regarded as mere ideal.
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#12
The Lutherans through the talks with them were afforded the chance to return, and they did not. The Anglicans petitioned and many are coming home. The Orthodox will be next before long, possibility the Russians first. HH Pope Benedict XVI is making peace and bringing home those that want it. My 0.02, only.
tim
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#13
(10-06-2010, 12:25 PM)timoose Wrote: The Orthodox will be next before long, possibility the Russians first. HH Pope Benedict XVI is making peace and bringing home those that want it. My 0.02, only.
tim

Just wondering why you say "possibly the Russians first"?
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#14
I don't think that a complete unity is ever possible, but I think that there can be a larger incorporation of the Orthodox Churches into the Catholic Church.  The problem is that there will always be willful people who continue a schism even after the original main parties have resolved their differences.  If, for instance, the Russian Orthodox Church officially accepts Catholic doctrine and comes into the Church, there will almost certainly be a sizable chunk of Russian Orthodox clergy and laity that refuse to accept this union and consider it heretical.  Then they might split off to form the "Society of Saint Nicholas II" or something and thus the schism would continue in some form.

I think that Pope Benedict realizes this, which is why he's trying to "divide and conquer" so that the most Catholic-inclined groups of various schismatic sects are given the opportunity of rejoining Rome.  A mass "corporate" reunion of every Christian Church and sect is a complete fantasy, but subgroups of the various schismatic churches and Protestant sects could peel off and join Rome at a more rapid rate now that Benedict has abandoned the feel-good "ecumenical dialogue" of JPII and started serious "come back to the Church" dialogue with the heretics and schismatics.
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#15
I don't think there will be unity with the Eastern Orthodox until the Pope in union with all the bishops Consecrates Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, but there are also other stumbling blocks.

1) One of the reasons why it took so long for many of the Anglicans to come home to Rome is because they saw how the celebration of the Novus Ordo in most cases is so banal. The liturgical changes and all the other chaos happening in the Church for the last 50 odd years is a stumbling block to unity, particularly the treatment of people who wanted to attend the Mass as it had essentially been for 1500-1700 years.

2) The whole issue of the supremacy of the Pope.

3) Filioque, although the Eastern Catholics I believe were/are allowed to retain the belief that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father only.

4) Modern ideas about ecumenism. As long as there is the attitude among prelates that no one has to convert to Catholicism to be saved, why will most non Catholics bother?

Unfortunately, we are living in a time when policy (in this case, ecumenism) is more important than Doctrine. If the Orthodox or Protestants in particular want unity, it has to be on our terms, not theirs, with no compromise.

Almost a year ago, I started a thread and posted a story of how a Bulgarian Orthodox bishop sought to reunite with Rome. A good start, but miles and miles to go before  East and West are reunited.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...119.0.html
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#16
How is it not possible when there are so many out there who consider themselves like Christian-Catholic?
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#17
(10-07-2010, 07:42 PM)Pomprincess Wrote: How is it not possible when there are so many out there who consider themselves like Christian-Catholic?

Because every Catholic is a Christian, but not every Christian is a Catholic.

Therefore, Christians cannot unite unless they become members of the Catholic Church.
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#18
ahhh....gotcha okay thanks for clearing that up :)
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#19
(10-07-2010, 08:12 PM)Pomprincess Wrote: ahhh....gotcha okay thanks for clearing that up :)

You're welcome.

I'm just trying to help.  :)
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#20
Christian Unity has already been achieved. All Christians are unified in the Catholic Church, those outside the Church are not Christians but heretics and/or schismatics.
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