Sodomite Perverts Begging for Chastisement
#11
Those poor "victim's souls"......... ::)
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#12
(10-11-2010, 08:53 PM)wallflower Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 08:48 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 01:41 AM)Jitpring Wrote: The campaign, far from proving the sodomites' case, actually shows how desperate it is because of all the reading-in to those passages required for their conclusions. The centurion must have been a sodomite because he greatly cared for his servant. Yeah, right. And the eunuch must have been a sodomite because....Why?

But they buy it.  People buy it.  It can drive you utterly batty trying to argue with them: they have made up their minds to believe what they want to.

And, likely, their intellects are darkened.  Realizing that God darkens the intellect as well as hardens the hearts of obstinate sinners helped me to stop being frustrated over the fact that it seems like 75% of the population cannot reason themselves out of a paper bag these days.

It isn't God Who darkens the intellect and hardens the heart, is it? I'd say it's sin that does that. Either way I agree that it is extremely frustrating to try and reason with such a soul. I have to avoid it nowadays or fall into despair myself.

It is absolutely God who does it, in the case of the intellect.  In the case of the heart, it is both - hardening of the heart (rejection of truth) is an act of man's will, but also sometimes punishment from God.

Scripture is replete with references to God "hardening the heart" of men, starting with Pharaoh. 

(Thomism has something to day about this - it plays a part in the great mystery of predestination.  God, as First Cause, is the primary cause even of a man coming to repentance - man is unable to do this himself, without grace.  In an act of repentance the first cause (God) is said to be "indistinguishable" from the secondary cause (man's will, moved by God).  The mystery is that sometimes God, as determined solely by His Will and by nothing a man does, chooses to withhold His grace, and that soul is then damned.  Note that the soul is damned by his own sin - he freely chose the mortal sin that cut him off from God.  The heart of the mystery is why God sometimes infallible leads souls to salvation by moving them to repentance but sometimes does not.)
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#13
(10-11-2010, 09:26 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 08:53 PM)wallflower Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 08:48 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 01:41 AM)Jitpring Wrote: The campaign, far from proving the sodomites' case, actually shows how desperate it is because of all the reading-in to those passages required for their conclusions. The centurion must have been a sodomite because he greatly cared for his servant. Yeah, right. And the eunuch must have been a sodomite because....Why?

But they buy it.  People buy it.  It can drive you utterly batty trying to argue with them: they have made up their minds to believe what they want to.

And, likely, their intellects are darkened.  Realizing that God darkens the intellect as well as hardens the hearts of obstinate sinners helped me to stop being frustrated over the fact that it seems like 75% of the population cannot reason themselves out of a paper bag these days.

It isn't God Who darkens the intellect and hardens the heart, is it? I'd say it's sin that does that. Either way I agree that it is extremely frustrating to try and reason with such a soul. I have to avoid it nowadays or fall into despair myself.

It is absolutely God who does it, in the case of the intellect.  In the case of the heart, it is both - hardening of the heart (rejection of truth) is an act of man's will, but also sometimes punishment from God.

Scripture is replete with references to God "hardening the heart" of men, starting with Pharaoh. 

(Thomism has something to day about this - it plays a part in the great mystery of predestination.  God, as First Cause, is the primary cause even of a man coming to repentance - man is unable to do this himself, without grace.  In an act of repentance the first cause (God) is said to be "indistinguishable" from the secondary cause (man's will, moved by God).  The mystery is that sometimes God, as determined solely by His Will and by nothing a man does, chooses to withhold His grace, and that soul is then damned.  Note that the soul is damned by his own sin - he freely chose the mortal sin that cut him off from God.  The heart of the mystery is why God sometimes infallible leads souls to salvation by moving them to repentance but sometimes does not.)

Interesting, I'll look into it. I've been studying the intellect for the other thread that I haven't responded to in a while but this is another interesting angle. The predestination issue is one I've been struggling with for a while now. I don't quite have it straight in my mind. 'Mystery' is a good word for it.
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#14
I don't understand the verse they used on the billboard.  It is the centurion who asks Jesus to heal his servant?  How does that affirm gay couples?  Is it homosexual to want a trusted and skilled friend to die who happens to be of the same gender?
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#15
(10-11-2010, 09:37 PM)wallflower Wrote: Interesting, I'll look into it. I've been studying the intellect for the other thread that I haven't responded to in a while but this is another interesting angle. The predestination issue is one I've been struggling with for a while now. I don't quite have it straight in my mind. 'Mystery' is a good word for it.

You simply must read the book by John Salza on the topic - it's amazing.  He makes the Thomism completely accessible.

(The only "mystery" once you understand the doctrine is why God chooses who He will let fall away into reprobation and who He will not.  The answer to why he lets anyone fall away is that the universe is more perfect if both His Mercy and His Justice are expressed - and Hell is the expression of His justice.)
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#16
(10-11-2010, 09:48 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I don't understand the verse they used on the billboard.  It is the centurion who asks Jesus to heal his servant?  How does that affirm gay couples?  Is it homosexual to want a trusted and skilled friend to die who happens to be of the same gender?

There is no actual logic behind it.

And, in our hyper-sexualized culture, everything is interpreted sexually by some.
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#17
(10-11-2010, 09:51 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 09:48 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I don't understand the verse they used on the billboard.  It is the centurion who asks Jesus to heal his servant?  How does that affirm gay couples?  Is it homosexual to want a trusted and skilled friend to die who happens to be of the same gender?

There is no actual logic behind it.

And, in our hyper-sexualized culture, everything is interpreted sexually by some.

In some ways, this will back fired on them, because you know people will acutally open the verse and read it, and be like what the hell are they are talking about?  It has nothing to do with gays
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#18
(10-11-2010, 09:48 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 09:37 PM)wallflower Wrote: Interesting, I'll look into it. I've been studying the intellect for the other thread that I haven't responded to in a while but this is another interesting angle. The predestination issue is one I've been struggling with for a while now. I don't quite have it straight in my mind. 'Mystery' is a good word for it.

You simply must read the book by John Salza on the topic - it's amazing.  He makes the Thomism completely accessible.

(The only "mystery" once you understand the doctrine is why God chooses who He will let fall away into reprobation and who He will not.  The answer to why he lets anyone fall away is that the universe is more perfect if both His Mercy and His Justice are expressed - and Hell is the expression of His justice.)

Thank you for the recommendation. The why is exactly my problem because that line of thought is dangerous and can so easily move in the wrong direction. I really wonder if the key lies in the sacrifices and prayers of the faithful. God gives it freely to some and while they are active in receiving and accepting these graces, they are in turn responsible to pray for those graces to fall on others as well, which then incites God to give more grace to those sinners, and now those people intercede for more grace etc...I wonder if we truly realize how great of a responsibility we have to pray ceaselessly for sinners. And if we are negligent in that I wonder if we aren't somehow responsible for the lack of grace given to them, for not fully doing our part in the Mystical Body, for letting the fallen stay there. It's sad to think about, but motivating too.
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#19
(10-11-2010, 09:57 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 09:51 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(10-11-2010, 09:48 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I don't understand the verse they used on the billboard.  It is the centurion who asks Jesus to heal his servant?  How does that affirm gay couples?  Is it homosexual to want a trusted and skilled friend to die who happens to be of the same gender?

There is no actual logic behind it.

And, in our hyper-sexualized culture, everything is interpreted sexually by some.

In some ways, this will back fired on them, because you know people will acutally open the verse and read it, and be like what the hell are they are talking about?  It has nothing to do with gays

I sure hope so!
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#20
(10-11-2010, 08:53 PM)wallflower Wrote: Either way I agree that it is extremely frustrating to try and reason with such a soul. I have to avoid it nowadays or fall into despair myself.

Which reminds me:

"When with much entreaty we cannot persuade him to attend, it remains for us to be silent. For if we are still to go on, his carelessness is aggravated. But him that is striving to learn, we lead on, and pour in much."

-St. John Chrysostom, Commentary on Mt. 13:10, Homily XLV

&

"Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls to swine."

-Mt. 7:6
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