Is Tripping on DMT Sinful/A Sin?
#1
Dimethyltryptamine ("DMT") is an hallucinogenic drug.  Disregard its illegality in the US - what I'm trying to figure out is whether a person who trips on it may find himself personally/privately excommunicated from God afterward.  Opinions drawing on Pre-V2 sources preferred (nevermind why).

Insightful contributions are much appreciated.
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#2
You would not be "excommunicated".  This is something to confess however.  Go to confession and wipe the slate clean.
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#3
(10-12-2010, 06:06 AM)tmw89 Wrote: Dimethyltryptamine ("DMT") is an hallucinogenic drug.  Disregard its illegality in the US - what I'm trying to figure out is whether a person who trips on it may find himself personally/privately excommunicated from God afterward.  Opinions drawing on Pre-V2 sources preferred (nevermind why).

Insightful contributions are much appreciated.

Using mind altering substances is usually considered a form of intoxication. I know there is probably more written pre-VII, but the issue is rather simple (note, this is only a matter of sin, not excommunication, and all the traditional (and current; they haven't changed) definitions of sin apply):

Current Catechism:
CCC Wrote:Respect for health

2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God.
We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.
Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.

2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value.
It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it's sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports.
By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

My opinion:

* A person who uses drugs intentionally for the purpose of obtain an unnecessary effect on the mind which may reduce one's will or ability to control oneself properly is very sinful at all times (this includes intentionally getting inebriated enough)
* A person who uses drugs out of curiosity, pressure, ignorance or habit has a mitigated guilt, but there is guilt and it should be dealt with by a good confession and a trusted confessor
* A person who uses drugs unwillingly or unknowingly has no guilt

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#4
(10-13-2010, 08:54 AM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: My opinion:

* A person who uses drugs intentionally for the purpose of obtain an unnecessary effect on the mind which may reduce one's will or ability to control oneself properly is very sinful at all times (this includes intentionally getting inebriated enough)
* A person who uses drugs out of curiosity, pressure, ignorance or habit has a mitigated guilt, but there is guilt and it should be dealt with by a good confession and a trusted confessor
* A person who uses drugs unwillingly or unknowingly has no guilt

I am not a theologian (or even a very good moralist), but I'd say this is a good, working set of guidelines. 

Still, there should be some treatment of casual use of things like alcohol which does necessarily lead to intoxication.
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#5
(10-13-2010, 08:54 AM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: 2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

My opinion:

* A person who uses drugs intentionally for the purpose of obtain an unnecessary effect on the mind which may reduce one's will or ability to control oneself properly is very sinful at all times (this includes intentionally getting inebriated enough)
[/quote]

How, then do marijuana, tobacco, and alcohol relate to each other?  I know alcohol is okay as long as it is not used to excess (as fuzzy a topic as that can be), but what about tobacco and marijuana?  If tobacco is okay despite #2291 from the CCC, then how can marijuana be unacceptable - would not both be unacceptable unless used on therapeutic grounds?

How exactly ought "drugs" to be defined, especially with regards to the context in which the word is used in #2291?
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#6
(10-14-2010, 04:09 PM)3Sanctus Wrote: How, then do marijuana, tobacco, and alcohol relate to each other?  I know alcohol is okay as long as it is not used to excess (as fuzzy a topic as that can be), but what about tobacco and marijuana?  If tobacco is okay despite #2291 from the CCC, then how can marijuana be unacceptable - would not both be unacceptable unless used on therapeutic grounds?
Personally, I think tobacco use is extremely dangerous and would be extremely immoral to use intentionally for no necessary purpose. The mitigation of guilt is caused by cultural influence and addiction. For drugs such as marijuana (natural substances which are intoxicating, there are many), even if one does not have a reduced will, an unnecessary use of a substance which predictably affects one's will or vigilance is sinful.

Quote:2 Timothy 4:5]
But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.

Using any drug to dull the mind or body without a good reason is wrong.

Quote:How exactly ought "drugs" to be defined, especially with regards to the context in which the word is used in #2291?
I won't interpret the Catechism, but I would classify this as:

* Any substance
* which has an effect on the mind or body
* which is not part of natural nutrition
* and is not necessary for a medical purpose
* especially if the effect can cause dependence or is a misuse of the body (smoking, injection, etc) or has a permanent effect

I would say "negative effect", but I can think of no positive permanent effect. I suppose if a substance were found or synthesized which caused a permanent positive effect the morality might be different. Vaccines and the like are considered here too, as they do have effects. The medical use is balanced against their effect.
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#7
Mannelig's definition seems to rule out even non-intoxicated alcohol imbibing-- which I won't stand for.

Believe it or not, part of my walk to God involve a tryptamine, back when I was younger.
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#8
(10-15-2010, 01:09 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: Mannelig's definition seems to rule out even non-intoxicated alcohol imbibing-- which I won't stand for.

Believe it or not, part of my walk to God involve a tryptamine, back when I was younger.
Medical purpose includes nutrition and hydration.
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#9
(10-16-2010, 06:22 AM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: Medical purpose includes nutrition and hydration.

So what you're saying...is that we can drink our calories for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?  :laughing:
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#10
(10-18-2010, 12:31 PM)3Sanctus Wrote:
(10-16-2010, 06:22 AM)Herr_Mannelig Wrote: Medical purpose includes nutrition and hydration.

So what you're saying...is that we can drink our calories for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?   :laughing:

If I said that, then that is what I said. If not, then it isn't.

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