Identifying A Modernist Parish
#21
Thank you all for your examples.  I can't believe I forgot about liturgical dance.  My wife and I have a standing agreement that if any NO we're visiting breaks out a liturgical dancer we get up and leave.  Thankfully it hasn't happened yet.

The common element I suspect to any parish displaying the examples shown will be their commitment to the Sacrament of Confession.  In contrast to the things listed here I remember the tour I was given of the local SSPX chapel.  The lady pointed out the Confessionals, the direction the line develops, and suggested I get there at least twenty minutes prior to Mass in order to go to Confession and thus be properly disposed to receive Holy Communion. 
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#22
(10-26-2010, 10:04 AM)truthinexhile Wrote:
(10-25-2010, 09:48 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Is the obverse true, that a parish with scheduled confessional times tends to be non-modernist?
To the larger issue, we probably don't even need a list.  Maybe it's enough to say that there's a different ethos that permeates everything at V2 parishes from the "art", the architecture, the behavior of parishioners, the "sermons" of the priest... we could go on an on...

For now, I attend a Basilica built in the mid-1800's and I just love the beauty of it. During my RCIA course, Monsignor mentioned that after V2 not a few churches ripped up all their ornate decorations because they misunderstood the directives of the counsel. Such a shame.

(10-26-2010, 10:04 AM)truthinexhile Wrote: Also, i don't want to be too condemnatory of the actual parishioners who have been completely abandoned by the Church in attending to their spiritual needs and formation.  For instance, I've met NO parishioners who don't know the rosary or what it actually is, don't know basic Bible stories, don't understand the purpose of the sacraments, etc.  Pointing out to them the shortcomings of the NO, is completely beyond them, even though they mostly would like to have a deepened spiritual life which they know they don't get from the NO.

Again, in my RCIA there were a few cradle Catholics my age (late 20's early 30's) who had never been confirmed and were thus taking the course. In many cases they knew less about Catholicism than I did as someone who was converting from Protestantism. Either it's neglect of Sunday obligation or attending a church that doesn't teach adults properly... but so many of them were like WOW! I had no idea about all these cool elements of the Catholic faith.
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#23
I've been finding that also.  The flip side of that is people who have antipathy to traditional practices, culture, etc -- once you realize the lack of spiritual formation and understanding, you realize there isn't really a foundation that would help tradition make sense to them.

For the "modernists" who are committed to ideas that are actually in contradiction to Catholicism, they also seem to suffer from both a neglect to their spiritual formation which gets replaced by their own attempts at spirituality.  It can get really ingrained because everything in the larger culture tells them that their own perspectives on religion must be logically sound, so they confound politics and culture for religious orthodoxy.

(10-26-2010, 04:57 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote:
(10-26-2010, 10:04 AM)truthinexhile Wrote:
(10-25-2010, 09:48 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Is the obverse true, that a parish with scheduled confessional times tends to be non-modernist?
To the larger issue, we probably don't even need a list.  Maybe it's enough to say that there's a different ethos that permeates everything at V2 parishes from the "art", the architecture, the behavior of parishioners, the "sermons" of the priest... we could go on an on...

For now, I attend a Basilica built in the mid-1800's and I just love the beauty of it. During my RCIA course, Monsignor mentioned that after V2 not a few churches ripped up all their ornate decorations because they misunderstood the directives of the counsel. Such a shame.

(10-26-2010, 10:04 AM)truthinexhile Wrote: Also, i don't want to be too condemnatory of the actual parishioners who have been completely abandoned by the Church in attending to their spiritual needs and formation.  For instance, I've met NO parishioners who don't know the rosary or what it actually is, don't know basic Bible stories, don't understand the purpose of the sacraments, etc.  Pointing out to them the shortcomings of the NO, is completely beyond them, even though they mostly would like to have a deepened spiritual life which they know they don't get from the NO.

Again, in my RCIA there were a few cradle Catholics my age (late 20's early 30's) who had never been confirmed and were thus taking the course. In many cases they knew less about Catholicism than I did as someone who was converting from Protestantism. Either it's neglect of Sunday obligation or attending a church that doesn't teach adults properly... but so many of them were like WOW! I had no idea about all these cool elements of the Catholic faith.
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#24
(10-26-2010, 08:39 AM)Ockham Wrote:
(10-25-2010, 09:48 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Is the obverse true, that a parish with scheduled confessional times tends to be non-modernist?

It's a theory I'm working on.  At this point I do believe a parish's commitment to Confession is a reflection on their orthodoxy.   If the pastor makes Confession a priority then it should follow that Church teaching is adhered to.  If the pastor's priority is social justice, community involvement and/or multiple laity 'ministries' then subjective interpretation and relativism are probably adhered to.  It's a clear choice: 1,960 years of getting people to Heaven or 50 years of being relative to the modern world.

I think you're on to something with the Confession thing. While I understand truthinexile's point about the vocation crisis, I think in places where vocations are not a severe issue like that, Confession is a huge element to trad vs modern. That is something I remember clearly growing up...Once a month Mom and Dad would go to Mass three parishes down to get to Confession because our parish had taken out the confessionals and just didn't make it readily available anymore. That's in the 80s. I remember that extra 20 minute drive seeming sooo long. Even in our parish now, a semi-modern Ukrainian church, we are the only ones who ask Father regularly for Confession before or after Mass, whenever is best for him. He is always so happy because he said we're the only ones who do and it encourages him in his vocation. I feel kind of bad for him. He doesn't schedule regular times anymore because no one shows up. It's a smaller, older parish to start with but he gets discouraged sometimes.
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#25
A modernist parish? Just ask the priest "Laudetur Jesus Christus!" iI you receieve no response, run! If the church looks like a giant UFO, run! If you drive in and see Obama bumper stickers, run!
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