my encounter with a penticostal
#11
this guy would not give at all that the Church decided on the bible books, and was telling me that the trinity was invented in the year 300.  He was telling me I need to get my info from some other source than the Church ::)  I was thinking "buddy, I believe The Church has the Holy Spirit....I trust what I have read"  but I didnt argue, I just nodded and let him babble on.

It really upset me for a while though....coming from a totally agnostic then pagan background...it makes me so sad and frusturated that so many versions of Jesus and His "church" exist.  If I did not have the extreme grace that God must be giving me to  believe and have faith, I would be sorely tempted and disgusted again about all the arguing and disagreement between the christians out there.  Also, if I was not a reader, my faith would be more shaky.  I dont know where these guys miss the fact that the early martyrs discussed the Mass, Eucharist and Purgatory....

He claimed his church was from the apostles, but can anyone tell me when this "I dont believe in the trinity pentacostal" church started?
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#12
Strange.  None of the Pentecostals I know are nutbars.  :pazzo:
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#13
(11-02-2010, 06:42 PM)mamalove Wrote: so, penticostals dont believe in the trinity?  he was also saying something about baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ, not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Some don't believe in the Trinity. They are called "Oneness Pentacostals" and are basically rehashing the ancient heresy of Modalism (ie they believe in only one divine person which manifests itself in different modes). They split off from "mainstream" Pentecostalism in the early 20th century. I have run into them on the 'net, but not in real life.

The wiki article on them seems like a decent explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism
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#14
I knew it was just some old heresy revamped into the 21st century...i was wishing when i was standing there that I was a walking ancient heresy dictionary so I could inform him of his error.
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#15
Reason is useless for unreasonable people. You can try your best and pray for him but you may never get anywhere.
I usually like to throw the Church fathers at these guys, to fight their invented histories. But most of them won't bother to read. And when they're over their heads they retreat and grab a young man from their "church" to fight you. 
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#16
(11-03-2010, 09:47 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote:
(11-02-2010, 06:42 PM)mamalove Wrote: so, penticostals dont believe in the trinity?  he was also saying something about baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ, not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Some don't believe in the Trinity. They are called "Oneness Pentacostals" and are basically rehashing the ancient heresy of Modalism (ie they believe in only one divine person which manifests itself in different modes). They split off from "mainstream" Pentecostalism in the early 20th century. I have run into them on the 'net, but not in real life.

I have encountered these online too.  They seemed especially unreasonable, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the nature of online discussion.
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#17
Because Catholic scholarship is lacking in the world today , these Pentecostals who in a different era would have been fervent Catholics are toss to and fro as in a boat on the sea without oars. They have no concept of true traditional Christianity and so their faith is incomplete and leads to extreme emotions. Many burn out after a few years..
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#18
(11-03-2010, 12:00 PM)JayneK Wrote: I have encountered these online too.  They seemed especially unreasonable, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the nature of online discussion.

They're especially unreasonable in person too. They're almost cult-like in their refusal of ecumenism even among Protestants. They believe that they alone havethe absolute truth. They believe that all Christians must speak in tongues and that adult baptism by immersion is required for salvation, rejecting infant baptism and baptism by desire. Very hard to get thru to them. Another Protestant group trying to set itself up as the new Catholic church, of sorts. 
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#19

        "Another Protestant group trying to set itself up as the new Catholic church, of sorts.  "

That is EXACTLY the thing I was thinking when I was talking to him!!!!

He kept insisting that his church was apostolic, and exactly like the apostles.  He insisted that I was wrong about my interpretation of speaking in tounges.  I said God gave them the gift so they could go out and convert all nations, he said that was some Catholic Church error, and that everyone that those in the upper room encountered spoke greek (i think that is what he said)
I was liike  ???
I said I knew many people who were holy who did not speak in tounges....he asked me for the definition of holy...and again the conversation was so schitzo, I cannot recall what his point was.

My end point with him was that if he had really known and loved Our Lord in His Real Presence, he could never have left the church...and that the teachings on the sanctity of life that are laid out by the Catholic Church alone were enough to prove to me that she is The Church.  Total reason, absolutely NO contradiction.

Then I had a lady come out and sternly tell me that I better get in the chapel because the people I was supposed to take over for were anxious to go.  Otherwise I probably would have stood out there for another half hour.
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#20
Exactly, mamalove.

I was an Evangelical for well nigh 15 years before coverting to Catholicism this year. I came to the conclusion that Protestants were wannabe Catholics. Protestants would claim to "only" believe in the Bible and eschew "human" traditions. But because the Bible is open to interpretation, they're forced to create their own traditions. It comes down to the fact that they refuse to submit to Rome's traditions and wantto create their own. They keep wanting to "reboot" tradition. Lutherans revolted tradition in the 1500's, Pentecostals revolted tradition in the 1900's.

What made me choose Roman Catholicism is that no Protestant can claim apostolic succession. Rome can, and does.
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