Has anyone done a study of Paul VI and JPII?
By all means pay respectful attention to what comes out of the Holy Office but when Ecclesia Dei is a motu proprio by the Pope himself and it's so obviously a load of crap when it comes to the truth, we don't have to take leave of our reason because of some power grab of a rule that oversteps or abuses legitimate authority. Wheat and chaff look virtually identical and we have to sift through it since chaff can be present in the authentic magisterium and only wheat in the ordinary infalllible and extraordinary infallible magisterium. 

Since Vatican I there has been the problem of "infallibility creep" going from Pius IX  and the pre-conciliar Popes we were blessed with who  rarely abused their authority or power.  But this  lead to the ultramontanism given to JPII by the conservatives and  since Vatican II and  Paul VI came along with the "religious submission of mind and will...even when the authentic magisterium is not speaking ex cathedra." schtick. 

The problem with the CDF document  is, and this is a frequent post-conciliar trick, a non-infallible document is suddenly placed above an infallible declaration or at the very least it tries to glom onto infallibility by association.

What can be definitively held without a definition?  And it's circular reasoning to talk about "truths" as being accepted when the whole question is whether they are truths in the first place.  Sure, I'll assent to "truths" but I won't assent to falsehoods sold as truths. 

This strikes me as an attempt to cut off legitimate resistance by taking the true obedience dogmatically required by Vatican I and by extension making it absolute obedience. 

The only way I can read that commentary and make it make sense in a Catholic understanding  is that the truth to be held "definitively" is that the Pope has the right and the authority to canonize.  The process can't be denied him.  But the truth of the particular canonizations cannot be infallibly assured. 

This is typical Novus Ordo ambiguity. 

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Re: Has anyone done a study of Paul VI and JPII? - by Gerard - 11-05-2010, 09:13 PM

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