More "orthodox" drivel
#21
(11-04-2010, 12:36 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Just curious if you could tell me when it was that the Catholic Church ever "had its house in order".  I find that an incredibly odd thing for a Catholic to say, sue me.

I hear Jesus said a pretty good Mass.  ;D
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#22
(11-04-2010, 12:48 PM)3Sanctus Wrote:
(11-04-2010, 12:36 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Just curious if you could tell me when it was that the Catholic Church ever "had its house in order".  I find that an incredibly odd thing for a Catholic to say, sue me.

I hear Jesus said a pretty good Mass.   ;D

Oh, very droll...  ;)
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#23
(11-04-2010, 12:50 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(11-04-2010, 12:48 PM)3Sanctus Wrote:
(11-04-2010, 12:36 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Just curious if you could tell me when it was that the Catholic Church ever "had its house in order".  I find that an incredibly odd thing for a Catholic to say, sue me.

I hear Jesus said a pretty good Mass.   ;D

Oh, very droll...  ;)

Thanks, I was hoping my hours of hard work would pay off.  :laughing:
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#24
(11-04-2010, 12:16 PM)ies0716 Wrote: Agreed.  The problem is that since Orthodox maintain the ancient liturgy one can walk into an Orthodox Church and be awed by the majesty of the Mass.  I've heard that this is the reason a lot of Catholics have converted to Orthodoxy; they found in the Orthodox Church what they were seeking in the Catholic Church.  It's deceptive in that despite their heretical beliefs in the papacy, at first glance their worship looks more Catholic than much Catholic worship.

That's my Orthodox friend's biggest card in his attempting to get my conversion. Aesthetically, I have much more in common with Orthodox than with most Catholics. They actually still practice all those traditions that are confined to our history books. He keeps trying to get me to go to a Divine Liturgy, but I'm hesitant precisely because I doubt my ability to resist after seeing such a beautiful liturgy.
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#25
(11-04-2010, 12:58 PM)St_Josephs_Man Wrote:
(11-04-2010, 12:16 PM)ies0716 Wrote: Agreed.  The problem is that since Orthodox maintain the ancient liturgy one can walk into an Orthodox Church and be awed by the majesty of the Mass.  I've heard that this is the reason a lot of Catholics have converted to Orthodoxy; they found in the Orthodox Church what they were seeking in the Catholic Church.  It's deceptive in that despite their heretical beliefs in the papacy, at first glance their worship looks more Catholic than much Catholic worship.

That's my Orthodox friend's biggest card in his attempting to get my conversion. Aesthetically, I have much more in common with Orthodox than with most Catholics. They actually still practice all those traditions that are confined to our history books. He keeps trying to get me to go to a Divine Liturgy, but I'm hesitant precisely because I doubt my ability to resist after seeing such a beautiful liturgy.

Maybe the fact that the Dox also allow birth control, abortion and divorce.  Is that a deal-maker for you?
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#26
The sinfulness of birth control I accept (mostly) based off of The Church's authority. Their teaching on divorce I do still find pretty shaky. They don't allow abortion.

This isn't the thread for this discussion though Augustine.
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#27
(11-04-2010, 12:58 PM)St_Josephs_Man Wrote:
(11-04-2010, 12:16 PM)ies0716 Wrote: Agreed.  The problem is that since Orthodox maintain the ancient liturgy one can walk into an Orthodox Church and be awed by the majesty of the Mass.  I've heard that this is the reason a lot of Catholics have converted to Orthodoxy; they found in the Orthodox Church what they were seeking in the Catholic Church.  It's deceptive in that despite their heretical beliefs in the papacy, at first glance their worship looks more Catholic than much Catholic worship.

That's my Orthodox friend's biggest card in his attempting to get my conversion. Aesthetically, I have much more in common with Orthodox than with most Catholics. They actually still practice all those traditions that are confined to our history books. He keeps trying to get me to go to a Divine Liturgy, but I'm hesitant precisely because I doubt my ability to resist after seeing such a beautiful liturgy.

Their liturgy is beautiful because it is Catholic. Whatever beauty they have - and they do - they stole it from the Church.

If you are spiritually or aesthetically drawn to Byzantine or Ruthenian Liturgy, then consider joining an Uniate Church (Eastern Catholic Church). The beauty and awe of a reverent and traditional oriental liturgy does not make up for the fact that you would not have the true faith. No man dare eat the Lamb outside the Father's house.
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#28
(11-04-2010, 01:21 PM)St_Josephs_Man Wrote: The sinfulness of birth control I accept (mostly) based off of The Church's authority. Their teaching on divorce I do still find pretty shaky. They don't allow abortion.

This isn't the thread for this discussion though Augustine.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.  I think it's important that people know that there's heretical junk behind the smells and bells.  American Orthodox are also incredibly liberal, politically, although there are a few Conservatives budding here and there, as they become aware of the rapine and degenerative tendencies of the DNC. considering that many Orthodox Greek Americans are famous entrepreneurs.
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#29
I have considered that, but unfortunately there are no Eastern parishes near me, and the closest is Chaldean, whereas I'd be more interested in a Byzantine (there apparently used to be one, but now it's been suppressed. I think the Byzantine Catholics who used to go there now attend our Tridentine, because there's a family there with small children who receive Communion).

Don't worry brothers and sisters, I recognize that my attraction towards the East is aesthetic, and when it comes down to it I believe very strongly in The Church's teachings, and think too much like a Roman to probably be comfortable with the over-mysticism of the East. Currently my friend and I are in a discussion about the importance of reason in the revelation of God. If he gets fed up with me he says "You're such a scholastic sometimes!"  :P

Still...if only there were a Byzantine parish!
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#30
(11-04-2010, 12:36 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(11-04-2010, 11:05 AM)ies0716 Wrote: I liked his point about Catholics returning to the ancient Mass.  The rest was pretty ridiculous.  This guy has serious issues with pronunciation, too.

If there is ever to be a true reunion (with the Orthodox embracing the fullness of the Catholic faith), the Catholic Church needs to get her own house in order first.  As this video points out, the current state of our liturgy makes us lose all credibility.

Just curious if you could tell me when it was that the Catholic Church ever "had its house in order".  I find that an incredibly odd thing for a Catholic to say, sue me.

You question when the Church ever had her house in order on a forum that is dedicated to pointing out exactly how the house has gone "out of order" over the past 40+ years?  My point (which I've seen a number of traditionalist authors make) is that by pushing a ridiculous ecumenical attitude toward Protestants in things like a Protestantized liturgy, we've ironically taken steps away from unity with the group of non-Catholic Christians that is closest to the Catholic Church theologically (the Orthodox).  If the Church is going to abandon her own traditions and neglect to enforce her own doctrine, we're going to have a tough time convincing the Orthodox (who in many ways are more Catholic than the average Catholic in the pew today) that they should come back into the fullness of the Catholic faith.  This applies to individual Orthodox Christians as well as the Orthodox Churches as a whole.

It's a similar situation to a person who claims to be Catholic and insists that you need to be Catholic too to achieve salvation.  If you look at this person's life and find that they are unemployed, live in a shack, and have serious personal problems, you're unlikely to take their words very seriously.  That is the state that the human element of the Catholic Church finds itself in today.
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