Pope made to look like a fool
#41
Such a sad and poignent moment in Church history.  Truly a picture is worth a thousand words.  Of course the Queen knew of protocol in receiving Holy Communion from the Pope and deliberately chose to defy him.  This shows the modernists' resolve and a clear indication of what we're up against (in case anyone didn't know).  Like so many other examples (i.e. the modernists of Madison Wisconsin) we will not overcome this struggle quickly or easily.  It will take generations to rebuild from the damage as it's easier to destroy than create.

I'm not a canon lawyer or expert, but I suspect the Pope didn't have an option when the dissident approached him.  Pope Paul VI's indult is enforce in Spain so I believe the Queen was within her rights to receive in hand while standing.  Extremely disrespectful yes - illegal no.

There is an argument that a priest may insist upon reception of Holy Communion on tongue while kneeling at the TLM as the indult did not come into play until after the 1962 missal.  I seriously doubt this pope will repeal the indult but I do hope and pray he starts saying the TLM publically.
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#42
(11-09-2010, 11:06 AM)Ockham Wrote: There is an argument that a priest may insist upon reception of Holy Communion on tongue while kneeling at the TLM as the indult did not come into play until after the 1962 missal.  I seriously doubt this pope will repeal the indult but I do hope and pray he starts saying the TLM publically.

:amen:

I would imagine His Holiness could override the indult, though I'm certainly not a cannon lawyer.  Either way, I hope he says at least one TLM in public before he dies (God grant him many years!).  Of course I suppose we can hope for a traditionalist pope after him, one who would restore the tiara and all the pomp of an old school coronation.  :)
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#43
I wonder if she weren't the queen if someone would have told her to kneel.
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#44
(11-09-2010, 11:18 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: I wonder if she weren't the queen if someone would have told her to kneel.

I wonder what it would take for His Holiness to hand the ciborium to one of the other clergymen, grab the paten, and whack a disobedient communicant on the head.  I'd pay good money to see that!  :laughing:
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#45
At least Bill Clinton received on the tongue.

[Image: clinton_communion1.jpg]

So much for a "Catholic" monarchy when Protestant leaders of a Republic receive Communion more reverently (though illicitly).
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#46
(11-09-2010, 11:35 AM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: At least Bill Clinton received on the tongue.

[Image: clinton_communion1.jpg]

So much for a "Catholic" monarchy when Protestant leaders of a Republic receive Communion more reverently (though illicitly).

:(  Poor Jesus...atleast he showed more reference, even if he was consuming his own damnation.
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#47

Just a reminder…

Some of us would love to kneel but are physically unable to do so. 

None of you can tell by looking at someone whether they are physically able to kneel.


Having said that,  the Queen of Spain may have been trying to kneel.  Look at the top of the kneeler and look at the pope and ask yourself if the kneeler seems to be the right height for an adult to kneel and receive Communion on the tongue.  It looks wrong to me, as if he would have to reach up to give anyone Communion.

Now look at the queen's right leg, you can see its outline under her skirt and it is bent as if to kneel.

I wonder if she knelt or knelt part way and found that her head was way too high for the pope to reach and decided she'd better lean forward so he could give her Communion on the hand. 

I have a long torso and am very conscious of how "tall" I am in relation to other people when we kneel at Mass.  I'm "taller" on my knees than most people who are actually taller than me when standing, yet my legs don't look unusually short.  So I wonder if Queen Sofia also has a long torso and that's part of the reason she got in this position.

I don't think any well-dressed, dignified woman, especially a queen, would get in such an awkward position in public without good reason to do so. 

I don't think she did it to embarrass the Pope or to insist on receiving in the hand.  She could have knelt and stuck her hands out in his face if she just wanted to receive in the hand and/or embarrass the Pope.
 


Did the photographer bother to take any pictures of anyone else receiving or was it just "Let's get a picture of the queen looking silly" day?








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#48
(11-09-2010, 10:26 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: It's pretty hard to imagine that the queen didn't do this on purpose. Surely she saw how everyone before her received Holy Communion. If that didn't tip her off then the kneelers she's falling over and the altar server holding the paten would have made it pretty clear.

I took a 73 year old lady and her husband (both Italian English) to the TLM on Sunday.  He knelt down and received on the tongue, she stood and put her hands out.  The priest insisted on giving it to her on the tongue and she complied though still standing right next to a kneeler which had been put there for that purpose.

While it was obvious to anyone who was paying attention that everyone else was kneeling down and receiving on the tongue, the sense of the sacred has been so lost on these people and the idea that they HAVE to follow any rules has been so jaded that they might just be on some sort of screwed up autopilot setting where they can mix and match the rubrics as they like.

Obviously once you lose belief in the real presence, then you might simply prefer to put the wafer in your own mouth.  And your will be done is the new creed.

This is yet one more example of why I don't believe that the situation is humanly recoverable.  These people are never going to believe in the real presence in the same way you believe it if you are properly instructed as a child.  Not en-masse anyway.

God has to chastise this generation as a lesson to the future generations to take their faith seriously or some serious stuff is going to happen.

Roll on the Chastisement.  For me it can't come soon enough.
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#49
(11-09-2010, 11:52 AM)Revixit Wrote: Just a reminder…

Some of us would love to kneel but are physically unable to do so. 

None of you can tell by looking at someone whether they are physically able to kneel.


Having said that,  the Queen of Spain may have been trying to kneel.  Look at the top of the kneeler and look at the pope and ask yourself if the kneeler seems to be the right height for an adult to kneel and receive Communion on the tongue.  It looks wrong to me, as if he would have to reach up to give anyone Communion.

Now look at the queen's right leg, you can see its outline under her skirt and it is bent as if to kneel.

I wonder if she knelt or knelt part way and found that her head was way too high for the pope to reach and decided she'd better lean forward so he could give her Communion on the hand. 

I have a long torso and am very conscious of how "tall" I am in relation to other people when we kneel at Mass.  I'm "taller" on my knees than most people who are actually taller than me when standing, yet my legs don't look unusually short.  So I wonder if Queen Sofia also has a long torso and that's part of the reason she got in this position.

I don't think any well-dressed, dignified woman, especially a queen, would get in such an awkward position in public without good reason to do so. 

I don't think she did it to embarrass the Pope or to insist on receiving in the hand.  She could have knelt and stuck her hands out in his face if she just wanted to receive in the hand and/or embarrass the Pope.
 

There is such a thing as giving the benefit of the doubt, and then there is rationalizing and making excuses.  You are rationalizing and making excuses.

I think if a queen were unable to kneel, her stewards would have made arrangements ahead of time and the Papal delegation told so she didn't look like a dumbass standing on a kneeler.  I think the papal delegation would also have sent word the Pope give Communion to people kneeling and on the tongue.  That is a more reasonable assumption than she has problems kneeling.

Quote:Did the photographer bother to take any pictures of anyone else receiving or was it just "Let's get a picture of the queen looking silly" day?

Why would a picture of John Q. Public be interesting, and why do you give the queen the benefit of the doubt and imply malice toward the photographer?

Face it, the Queen of Spain is a tool.
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#50
She didn't seem to mind kneeling before King Bill and Queen Hilary.


[Image: article-0-0025F06800000258-992_634x903.jpg]

You've gotta love the look on Hillary Clinton's face.
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