The Pope Plans to Allow Women to the Office of Lector
#11
That's right Cg, they're talking about making this an office in which women are part, and not acting as "extraordinary ministers".  They are trying to make a defacto situation, de jure, and some people at Rafdio Vatican are speculating, not without some justification, that this could open way for discussing women deacons.
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#12
(11-13-2010, 12:24 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: They are trying to make a defacto situation, de jure, and some people at Rafdio Vatican are speculating, not without some justification, that this could open way for discussing women deacons.

Far-fetched.  Deacons receive the sacrament of Holy Orders, which is another thing entirely.  If a woman can be a deacon, there is no reason a woman can't be a priest, from what I can see, and we know that that is never going to happen.
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#13
(11-13-2010, 12:24 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: That's right Cg, they're talking about making this an office in which women are part, and not acting as "extraordinary ministers".  They are trying to make a defacto situation, de jure, and some people at Rafdio Vatican are speculating, not without some justification, that this could open way for discussing women deacons.

The office of lector no longer exists (at least in the Novus Ordo) so I don't understand what your article is about. There's no longer an office of lector to admit women to.
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#14
(11-13-2010, 12:31 PM)Servus_Maria Wrote: The office of lector no longer exists (at least in the Novus Ordo) so I don't understand what your article is about. There's no longer an office of lector to admit women to.

Yes there is.  It's not a minor order any longer, but Lector and Acolyte are still official ministries into which one can be instituted.  Usually men preparing for the priesthood and dioconate are, but any man can be as well (though not women).  Most people don't know this, however, because they don't see it much.
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#15
Quote: How is this news?  Women lector all the time here in the US.

That was my question, basically, and I hope others more knowledgeable will comment.  There are, in the N.O., a species called "lectors" which are women taking part in the Mess, as opposed to scripture.  However, they are NOT ordained.  You can call them "Green men on the moon".  So calling them lectors does not make them lectors.  They are not ordained.

The key term  here is "Office".  It sounds like attempted ordinations will be conducted.  From my very limited understanding, this sounds like heresy.  A woman can't be ordained as a lector.  Is this true?
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#16
(11-13-2010, 01:01 PM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: How is this news?  Women lector all the time here in the US.

That was my question, basically, and I hope others more knowledgeable will comment.  There are, in the N.O., a species called "lectors" which are women taking part in the Mess, as opposed to scripture.  However, they are NOT ordained.  You can call them "Green men on the moon".  So calling them lectors does not make them lectors.  They are not ordained.

The key term  here is "Office".  It sounds like attempted ordinations will be conducted.  From my very limited understanding, this sounds like heresy.  A woman can't be ordained as a lector.  Is this true?

As pointed out, no one is ordained lector in the NO Church. It is an office into which (so far) only men may be instituted.
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#17
What is a deacon in the Novus Ordo rite?  Is he ordained, or is it called an "Office"?  I thought Offices were minor ORDERS.  If you have time, please explain how an Office contrasts with orders/ordination and the sacrament.  And if this difference is Traditional, or if it is only found in the N.O.
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#18
(11-13-2010, 12:58 PM)cgraye Wrote:
(11-13-2010, 12:31 PM)Servus_Maria Wrote: The office of lector no longer exists (at least in the Novus Ordo) so I don't understand what your article is about. There's no longer an office of lector to admit women to.

Yes there is.  It's not a minor order any longer, but Lector and Acolyte are still official ministries into which one can be instituted.  Usually men preparing for the priesthood and dioconate are, but any man can be as well (though not women).  Most people don't know this, however, because they don't see it much.

But it's not a step to Holy Orders and so there's really no problem with women being lectors (well, at least no more of a problem than there already is with having the laity doing the readings). Pre-Vatican II lectors were considered clerics, post-Vatican II one's not considered a cleric until they're ordained to the diaconate.
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#19

Very confusing.  See the original:
Quote: From the outset on, lectors -- consistently men -- were authorized by the local bishop in the majority of cases.  Besides these lectors assigned as needed by the Bishop, baptised women and men were assigned the  role of reader in the Mass out of necessity.

Till 1972 the lector and acolyte (Altarservers) were assignments reserved for "lower ordinands".  Since 1972 both assignments are no longer tied to one who is ordained.
So no ordination will be required.  But then why is the office of lector referred to as a minor "order"?

Quote:: "The Synod Fathers desired that the office of lector should be open also to women -- that therefore took place. And the Holy Father studied this matter intently."
  So it is no longer just an "assignment", it now becomes an "office".  Can anyone give me an example of an "office", even reserved for men, that does not require ordination?

Quote: The German edition of Radio Vatican speculated that with the preparedness of the Pope to allow women as lectors, this could also open the way for discussing allowance of women in the office of the diaconate.
More confusion.  Now the diaconate is referred to as an "office".  I thought deacons were ordained. 

And how does this effect Trads?  In the Trad rite I am 99.9% sure that deacons are ordained.  In fact, in the Trad rite, I believe the office of lector is conferred as a minor order.  More and more the two rites separate.  The answer is to declare the N.O. the vulgar rite, and be done with it.

And of course no comment on the scripture that women aren't supposed to be in the sanctuary.
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#20
(11-13-2010, 01:27 PM)Servus_Maria Wrote: [But it's not a step to Holy Orders and so there's really no problem with women being lectors (well, at least no more of a problem than there already is with having the laity doing the readings). Pre-Vatican II lectors were considered clerics, post-Vatican II one's not considered a cleric until they're ordained to the diaconate.

Correct, which is why I said this doesn't mean anything for the possibility of women deacons.  Still...I don't think it would be a good thing.
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