The Pope Plans to Allow Women to the Office of Lector
#21
(11-13-2010, 01:05 PM)James02 Wrote: What is a deacon in the Novus Ordo rite?  Is he ordained, or is it called an "Office"?  I thought Offices were minor ORDERS.  If you have time, please explain how an Office contrasts with orders/ordination and the sacrament.  And if this difference is Traditional, or if it is only found in the N.O.

A deacon is a deacon.  A deacon has always received the sacrament of Holy Orders since the beginning, just like a priest.  The minor orders before were not ordained in the sense that they received this sacrament, but they were clerics.  The current Lector and Acolyte, like the previous, do not receive the sacrament, but unlike the previous, they are not clerics.

So this does not affect the TLM at all.
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#22
The office of Lector is now instituted, not ordained.
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#23
Pretty soon the Pope will allow womyn priests.

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#24
Thanks for explaining.  I understand this somewhat better.

The evil will be when they conduct some "psuedo- ordination" ceremony for these lectors.  It will confuse the laity even more.
And the next question, what about the office of exorcist?  Interesting.

Leave the dead to bury the dead and cling to Tradition.
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#25
(11-13-2010, 02:45 PM)James02 Wrote: Leave the dead to bury the dead and cling to Tradition.

That's good advice.

Cgraye,
Thank you for your explanations.

The only remark I can think of adding would be sarcastic, so maybe I'm better off not making it...
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#26
(11-13-2010, 02:03 PM)Petertherock Wrote: Pretty soon the Pope will allow womyn priests.

This is a huge leap.

"We declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."
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#27
Exorcist is one of those minor orders that was "suppressed".  It is still kept alive in the FSSP, ICK and FSSPX and others.
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#28
there's actually a pretty good discussion of this on kreuz.de
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#29
I wonder what the canonical status of those ordained to the minor orders in the FSSP and ICKSP is considering Paul VI abolished the orders.
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#30
Others did a pretty good job of explaining, but if there's still any confusion, let it end here:

-The minor orders and subdiaconate were suppressed by Paul VI. Two ministries were created for men to be "instituted" into: the lector and the acolyte. Acolytes may also be called subdeacons, where custom prevails. Exceptions are made for the minor orders and subdiaconate in the traditional seminaries.

-The vast majority of dioceses don't actually apply the instituted ministries to the (male) laity at large, as they were meant to, but reserve it for seminarians. It's generally preferred to just have people (including women) act as lectors or acolytes on an unofficial basis.

-Deacons are and always will be one of the holy orders instituted by Christ Himself (along with the episcopate and the presbyterate) when He was here on earth. The Church has no power to change that. It had the authority to change the subdiaconate and minor orders because those were created by the Church for purposes which are, unfortunately, "obsolete" today. Not just because of modernism, but because of the Latin Church's centuries-long habit of just having full priests do everything and keeping the other orders within seminary walls. If any proof of this is needed, just ask yourself: what would your parish do with a full-time subdeacon? (Some Eastern churches apparently do have full-time subdeacons, but we're talking Latin Rite here.)
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