Meatless Friday Question
#31
(11-19-2010, 05:25 PM)dark lancer Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 05:23 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 05:21 PM)dark lancer Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 05:21 PM)Gladium Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 05:17 PM)dark lancer Wrote: I was wondering what the reason is for abstaining from meat on Fridays.  The quasi-heretical prayer group I was in all seemed to agree that the rule was established to "support the fisherman."

It is meant to make Friday a penitential day to commemorate the Crucifixion.

But how does abstaining from meat accomplish this?

The same way fasting and abstinence bring us closer to God during Lent. It gives us a mortification that draws our minds to the events of our Lord's life.

How would you explain this to someone who thinks that abstinence from meat on Fridays was a connivance to support fishermen and make life unnecessarily complicated?

. . . the same way you explain the objective existence to God to someone who wants to believe what they want to believe.
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#32
(11-19-2010, 05:26 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 01:43 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote: Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops:

We may also substitute other good actions for abstinence from meat. These could include . . . taking part in a service of worship with others . . .

???

:shame:

I completely missed that. That is a poor example, unless you went to Mass for that participation.
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#33
(11-19-2010, 05:29 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 05:26 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 01:43 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote: Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops:

We may also substitute other good actions for abstinence from meat. These could include . . . taking part in a service of worship with others . . .

???

:shame:

I completely missed that. That is a poor example,

Poor example? Hmmm. It's downright Modernist.

I know a "traditional" Catholic who put this exhortation into practice by celebrating Yom Kippur with the Jews. This is perfectly acceptable in my diocese.

But as you know, the Jews have the Day of Atonement to make reparation for sin; we have the Mass.

Quote: unless you went to Mass for that participation.

Absolutely.
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#34
(11-19-2010, 03:13 PM)mike6240 Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 02:57 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 02:47 PM)mike6240 Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 02:14 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 02:04 PM)mike6240 Wrote: I follow the commandments of the Church according to the Baltimore Catechism.  The Baltimore Catechism is soundly Catholic. 
We are bound, under the pain of sin, to observe the commandments of the Church:

Q. 1325. Are not the commandments of the Church also commandments of God?

A. The commandments of the Church are also commandments of God, because they are made by His authority, and we are bound under pain of sin to observe them.

Q. 1326. What is the difference between the commandments of God and the Commandments of the Church?

A. The commandments of God were given by God Himself to Moses on Mount Sinai; the commandments of the Church were given on different occasions by the lawful authorities of the Church. The Commandments given by God Himself cannot be changed by the Church; but the commandments made by the Church itself may be changed by its authority as necessity requires.

Q. 1327. Which are the chief commandments of the Church?

A. The chief commandments of the Church are six:
   1. To hear Mass on Sundays and holydays of obligation.
   
   2. To fast and abstain on the days appointed.
   
   3. To confess at least once a year.
   4. To receive the Holy Eucharist during the Easter time.
   5. To contribute to the support of our pastors.
   6. Not to marry persons who are not Catholics, or who are related to us within the third degree of kindred, nor privately without witnesses, nor to solemnize marriage at forbidden times.

So given what I've mentioned, if I eat fish for supper and add extra prayers, would that be acceptable?

You should mention it in the confessional and yes, extra prayers would be acceptable.  From what you wrote, you broke the Church's law on abstinence regardless of the circumstances.  It should be confessed.

But where I'm from, the law on abstinence is lax. Why confess it if I'm obeying my bishops?

Thank you for your input, Petertherock. :D

We are all free to choose whether or not to follow the Church's law (this including priests, bishops, etc).  This still does not negate the Church's precepts.  The Church Precepts state you are bound under the pain of sin to observe the laws of fast and abstinence.  You didn't do this.  I would confess it and abide what your confessor tells you.  By doing this, you have followed the Church's law - which brings blessings and graces to you.

But the law itself varies.  The law in Canada, where the OP is from , gives a person the option of either going meatless or substituting some other penitential practice.  Therefore, the OP did not violate the law.
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#35
I always wonder about things made with meat. If I eat beans that have been cooked with bacon is that okay as long as I don't eat the bacon? What about fake bacon bits that say "artificial and natural flavoring" in the list of ingredients?
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#36
(11-19-2010, 06:00 PM)kimbaichan Wrote: I always wonder about things made with meat. If I eat beans that have been cooked with bacon is that okay as long as I don't eat the bacon? What about fake bacon bits that say "artificial and natural flavoring" in the list of ingredients?

I'm not sure about the first example, but fake bacon bits are fine as they are made of soy.
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#37
(11-19-2010, 06:13 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 06:00 PM)kimbaichan Wrote: I always wonder about things made with meat. If I eat beans that have been cooked with bacon is that okay as long as I don't eat the bacon? What about fake bacon bits that say "artificial and natural flavoring" in the list of ingredients?

I'm not sure about the first example, but fake bacon bits are fine as they are made of soy.

Does bacon count as meat? The meat is cured and loses some of its intrinsic characteristics.

Nevertheless, what's important here is the spirit of the law. You should abstain from meat on Fridays to fulfill the Church's injunction. It has a beautiful penitential value. However, let's say that you chose to eat an expensive fish dish instead of the meat; then you would be violating the spirit of the law, although not its letter.
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#38
(11-19-2010, 06:35 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 06:13 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 06:00 PM)kimbaichan Wrote: I always wonder about things made with meat. If I eat beans that have been cooked with bacon is that okay as long as I don't eat the bacon? What about fake bacon bits that say "artificial and natural flavoring" in the list of ingredients?

I'm not sure about the first example, but fake bacon bits are fine as they are made of soy.

Does bacon count as meat? The meat is cured and loses some of its intrinsic characteristics.

Nevertheless, what's important here is the spirit of the law. You should abstain from meat on Fridays to fulfill the Church's injunction. It has a beautiful penitential value. However, let's say that you chose to eat an expensive fish dish instead of the meat; then you would be violating the spirit of the law, although not its letter.

Fish is a luxury food here, unless you limit yourself to canned tuna.
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#39
(11-19-2010, 06:36 PM)dark lancer Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 06:35 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 06:13 PM)Pax et Bonum Wrote:
(11-19-2010, 06:00 PM)kimbaichan Wrote: I always wonder about things made with meat. If I eat beans that have been cooked with bacon is that okay as long as I don't eat the bacon? What about fake bacon bits that say "artificial and natural flavoring" in the list of ingredients?

I'm not sure about the first example, but fake bacon bits are fine as they are made of soy.

Does bacon count as meat? The meat is cured and loses some of its intrinsic characteristics.

Nevertheless, what's important here is the spirit of the law. You should abstain from meat on Fridays to fulfill the Church's injunction. It has a beautiful penitential value. However, let's say that you chose to eat an expensive fish dish instead of the meat; then you would be violating the spirit of the law, although not its letter.

Fish is a luxury food here, unless you limit yourself to canned tuna.

I've eaten tilapia once before on Friday. Tilapia is a penance by itself.
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#40
(11-19-2010, 05:25 PM)dark lancer Wrote:   How would you explain this to someone who thinks that abstinence from meat on Fridays was a connivance to support fishermen and make life unnecessarily complicated?

That doesn't make any sense.  There's no law that says you have to eat fish.  The only requirement is that you abstain from meat.  How would your friends explain the fact that the traditional fasting regulations of the Eastern churches prohibit not only meat, but also fish, wine, and olive oil during penitential seasons?  What group of farmers or fishermen does that support?
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