Pope says condoms are ok in some cases
#31
As a long-time active member of the pro-life movement I must admit being crestfallen and feeling a sense of betrayal.  My feelings are not important, but this is a massive blow to the pro-life movement.
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#32
Better article, more information: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/201...says-pope/

Condoms may be ‘first step’ in moralisation of sexuality, says Pope
By Staff Reporter on Saturday, 20 November 2010


Benedict XVI has said that if those with HIV use a condom with “the intention of reducing the risk of infection” it might be the “first step in the direction of a moralisation” of sexuality.

He made the comment in Light of the World, a book-length interview with German journalist Peter Seewald, which will be published on Tuesday.

The book is still officially under embargo, but the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano has published substantial extracts.

In the book Mr Seewald asks the Pope about his statement on the way to Africa in March 2009 that condoms were not the solution to the Aids crisis.

Pope Benedict replies: “Someone had asked me why the Catholic Church adopts an unrealistic and ineffective position on Aids.

“At that point, I really felt that I was being provoked, because the Church does more than anyone else. And I stand by that claim. Because she is the only institution that assists people up close and concretely, with prevention, education, help, counsel, and accompaniment. And because she is second to none in treating so many Aids victims, especially children with Aids.

He continued: ”In my remarks I was not making a general statement about the condom issue, but merely said, and this is what caused such great offense, that we cannot solve the problem by distributing condoms. Much more needs to be done. We must stand close to the people, we must guide and help them; and we must do this both before and after they contract the disease.

“As a matter of fact, you know, people can get condoms when they want them anyway. But this just goes to show that condoms alone do not resolve the question itself. More needs to happen.

“Meanwhile, the secular realm itself has developed the so-called ABC Theory: Abstinence-Be Faithful-Condom, where the condom is understood only as a last resort, when the other two points fail to work. This means that the sheer fixation on the condom implies a banalisation of sexuality, which, after all, is precisely the dangerous source of the attitude of no longer seeing sexuality as the expression of love, but only a sort of drug that people administer to themselves.

“This is why the fight against the banalisation of sexuality is also a part of the struggle to ensure that sexuality is treated as a positive value and to enable it to have a positive effect on the whole of man’s being.”

He added: “There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralisation, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanisation of sexuality.”

Mr Seewald then asks the Pope whether he is saying that the Church is not opposed in principle to condoms.

The Pope answers: “She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality.”

Dr Janet Smith, a consultor to the Pontifical Council on the Family, said: “[The pope] says that the Church does not find condoms to be a ‘real or moral solution.’ That means the Church does not find condoms either to be moral or an effective way of fighting the transmission of HIV.

“As the Holy Father indicates in his fuller answer, the most effective portion of programmes designed to reduce the transmission of HIV are calls to abstinence and fidelity.

“The Holy Father, again, is saying that the intention to reduce the transmission of any infection is a ‘first step’ in a movement towards a more human way of living sexuality.”

Fr Joseph Fessio SJ, editor-in-chief of Ignatius Press and a former student of Benedict XVI, said: “It would be wrong to say, ‘Pope Approves Condoms’. He’s saying it’s immoral but in an individual case the use of a condom could be an awakening to someone that he’s got to be more conscious of his actions.”

Leading Vatican commentator John Allen said: “Pope Benedict XVI has signaled that in some limited cases, where the intent is to prevent the transmission of disease rather than to prevent pregnancy, the use of condoms might be morally justified.

“While that position is hardly new, in the sense that a large number of Catholic theologians and even a special Vatican commission requested by Benedict XVI have endorsed it, this is the first time the Pope himself has publicly espoused such a view.

“The comments do not yet rise to the level of official church teaching, but they do suggest that Benedict might be open to such a development.”

John Thavis, another distinguished Vatican commentator, said: “These are nuanced comments, and one should read the passage in full to gauge the Pope’s position. The Pope’s answer seems to invite follow-up questions.

“Meanwhile, it’s worth noting that the Vatican has never proclaimed a ‘ban’ on condom use in Aids prevention; on the contrary, some Vatican theologians and officials have argued that for married couples in which one partner is HIV-infected, use of condoms would be a moral responsibility.”

He added that “despite journalistic hyperventilation” the Pope’s comments do not signal a major shift in Vatican thinking on condoms.

“What the Pope has done is to raise the issue publicly,” he said, “making clear that the Church’s teaching against condoms as a form of birth control is different from its position on condom use in disease prevention.”
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#33
(11-20-2010, 09:08 PM)Baskerville Wrote: Think we'll ever have a Catholic Pope again? Seriously this shit is getting old. The Holy Father is not a retard. I dont believe he didnt't know this would be spun. First women lectors now condoms its the first steps in fulfilling the one religion new world order Church that he will be head of.

Can't say I disagree.

If he didn't know this would be spun like that then he is a very foolish man.

I can only REASONABLY conclude that the visible church morphs into the Church of the New World Order at some stage in the next decade or two.  The New World Order has tried for 1000 years to destroy the Church from without but why do that if you can capture it from within.  Millions of Catholics will go along with it because their faith and belief in absolutes has eroded away over the last 60 years.

I think the prophecies at La Sallette were onto something.  Certainly looks that way.
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#34
I can't see that the Pope said anything untrue.
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#35
So a bunch of media outlets distort what the Pope said to a point that is completely misleading and several people here start attacking the Pope.  He made a perfectly reasonable comment to a responsible journalist with whom he has worked before.  He did nothing wrong at all.  Everything he says gets distorted by the media because they are hostile to Catholicism.  Should he stop making statements altogether? 

Everybody here should know better than to believe anything in the secular media.
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#36
(11-20-2010, 10:20 PM)JayneK Wrote: So a bunch of media outlets distort what the Pope said to a point that is completely misleading and several people here start attacking the Pope.  He made a perfectly reasonable comment to a responsible journalist with whom he has worked before.  He did nothing wrong at all.  Everything he says gets distorted by the media because they are hostile to Catholicism.  Should he stop making statements altogether? 

If this is the effect he creates, then yes, I would say he should stop making statements altogether.

Let them cover his audiences, his Masses, his meetings with world leaders and his encyclicals. No need for the Holy Father to elaborate beyond what he says or writes in those portals of communication.
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#37
I think part of the problem is that Pope Benedict has a tendency to forget that he can't really speak as a private theologian anymore.  He answered these questions as a theologian would, with nuance and reflection.  None of his answers are theologically incorrect.  The media doesn't understand that there is a difference between the Pope speaking as a private theologian and the Pope speaking as the Pope, so every statement he makes gets put forth as an Ex Cathedra teaching of the Church.  I agree with the previous posters that said he should know better.  Given that he has written and spoke as a private theologian for many years, I can imagine that old habits are hard to break.
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#38
(11-20-2010, 10:28 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote:
(11-20-2010, 10:20 PM)JayneK Wrote: So a bunch of media outlets distort what the Pope said to a point that is completely misleading and several people here start attacking the Pope.  He made a perfectly reasonable comment to a responsible journalist with whom he has worked before.  He did nothing wrong at all.  Everything he says gets distorted by the media because they are hostile to Catholicism.  Should he stop making statements altogether? 

If this is the effect he creates, then yes, I would say he should stop making statements altogether.

Let them cover his audiences, his Masses, his meetings with world leaders and his encyclicals. No need for the Holy Father to elaborate beyond what he says or writes in those portals of communication.

When dealing with a hostile media it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't".  They would use a policy of never making statements against the Church too.  The media represents a secular ideology that is opposed to Catholicism.  These people have no interest in understanding him, telling the truth,  or reporting on him fairly.  They are about attacking and discrediting the Church and they will say anything.  It is always possible for his words to be taken out of context, including from his encyclicals, and there is nothing that he can do to prevent it.  It is very unfair to blame him for their dishonesty.

Those of us who are aware of the situation (which ought to be every poster of FE) should ignore the headlines and read the actual statements of the Pope. 
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#39
A lot of the posters on this forum have trouble actually reading and comprehending, fishtards.
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#40
Sometimes it is better to remain silent than to try to make escoteric points that people can't fully grasp or that get morphed when the media spin reports it.

This is the virtue of prudence and I am starting to think that the Holy Father needs to not try to be so smart by half that he gets into trouble with the popular press consistently. He is smart enough to know they won't 'get it' and that unfortunately the media is more able to 'educate' the faithful than the Church these days and so he needs to know their game rather than ignore it at his and the Church's disadvantage.

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