Willful Ignorance over the Pope's Remarks
#91
(11-21-2010, 08:09 PM)lamentabili sane Wrote: Why can't Benedict XVI just be asked to reaffirm the clear teaching of Pope Pius XI in Casti Connubii?

Something like this is going to have to be done.
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#92
(11-21-2010, 09:21 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 08:02 PM)JayneK Wrote: A person in the state of mortal is capable of growing in moral understanding. 

Yes, but while in mortal sin he's still headed to hell - like the sodomite who uses a condom. Headed to hell. This isn't progress.

The hope is that he will "grow in moral understanding" enough to repent and stop heading to hell. People do not always have Damascene conversions; it can be very gradual, but the end result is still the same.
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#93
(11-21-2010, 09:26 PM)Gladium Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:21 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 08:02 PM)JayneK Wrote: A person in the state of mortal is capable of growing in moral understanding. 

Yes, but while in mortal sin he's still headed to hell - like the sodomite who uses a condom. Headed to hell. This isn't progress.

The hope is that he will "grow in moral understanding" enough to repent and stop heading to hell. People do not always have Damascene conversions; it can be very gradual, but the end result is still the same.

Where's the growth, where's any hint of conversion, when immediately after putting on a condom, the sodomite proceeds to sodomize? Does this not immediately annihilate any alleged growth in moral understanding?
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#94
(11-21-2010, 09:30 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:26 PM)Gladium Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:21 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 08:02 PM)JayneK Wrote: A person in the state of mortal is capable of growing in moral understanding. 

Yes, but while in mortal sin he's still headed to hell - like the sodomite who uses a condom. Headed to hell. This isn't progress.

The hope is that he will "grow in moral understanding" enough to repent and stop heading to hell. People do not always have Damascene conversions; it can be very gradual, but the end result is still the same.

Where's the growth, where's any hint of conversion, when immediately after putting on a condom, the sodomite proceeds to sodomize? Does this not immediately annihilate any alleged growth in moral understanding?

This is a hypothetical case. Aren't you reading into this a bit much?
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#95
(11-21-2010, 09:32 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: This is a hypothetical case. Aren't you reading into this a bit much?

I don't think so. The pope says there may be some "moralization" when the sodomite decides to use a condom. I say this possibility is immediately negated when he then proceeds to commit sodomy, which is - let's never forget - a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

By the way, here's some of the "clarity" Benedict's comments have spawned:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...NewsSecond
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#96
(11-21-2010, 09:08 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 08:35 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Within the context of his remarks he condemned contraception, it is the media which exerts a great deal over people's minds to make them think that two plus two is five.

I agree...the media try to spin things any which way they can just to sell news; however, for this reason it may be prudent for the pope to restrict his interviews to Catholic journalists only.

The interview in question was with a sympathetic Catholic journalist.  Other journalists are taking the comments (presumably  accurately) reported by this initial one and twisting them.
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#97
(11-21-2010, 09:44 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:32 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: This is a hypothetical case. Aren't you reading into this a bit much?

I don't think so. The pope says there may be some "moralization" when the sodomite decides to use a condom. I say this possibility is immediately negated when he then proceeds to commit sodomy, which is - let's never forget - a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

By the way, here's some of the "clarity" Benedict's comments have spawned:

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704444304575628611227070080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704444304575628611227070080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond[/


The fact that fellow Catholics have spent several pages of replies debating this with you should tell you something about the current state of the Church and explains why Benedict XVI would feel comfortable speaking this way.  He has a whole army that is willing to defend this mockery.
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#98
(11-21-2010, 09:44 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:32 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: This is a hypothetical case. Aren't you reading into this a bit much?

I don't think so. The pope says there may be some "moralization" when the sodomite decides to use a condom. I say this possibility is immediately negated when he then proceeds to commit sodomy, which is - let's never forget - a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

By the way, here's some of the "clarity" Benedict's comments have spawned:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...NewsSecond

It's not even evident the hypothetical person mentioned was a sodomite; there seems to be a disconnect between what was written and what you're imagining in your mind.  Surely, you realize that a lot of male prostitutes cater to women.
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#99
(11-21-2010, 09:21 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 08:02 PM)JayneK Wrote: A person in the state of mortal is capable of growing in moral understanding. 

Yes, but while in mortal sin he's still headed to hell - like the sodomite who uses a condom. Headed to hell. This isn't progress.

Of course.  A person in a state of mortal sin is by definition headed to hell.  It is nevertheless possible for him to have a gradual reawakening of conscience leading to repentance and salvation.  The process of awakening the conscience is a good thing, even while it takes place in a person in a state of mortal sin.
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(11-21-2010, 10:46 PM)NorthernTrad Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:44 PM)Jitpring Wrote:
(11-21-2010, 09:32 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: This is a hypothetical case. Aren't you reading into this a bit much?

I don't think so. The pope says there may be some "moralization" when the sodomite decides to use a condom. I say this possibility is immediately negated when he then proceeds to commit sodomy, which is - let's never forget - a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.

By the way, here's some of the "clarity" Benedict's comments have spawned:

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704444304575628611227070080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704444304575628611227070080.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond[/


The fact that fellow Catholics have spent several pages of replies debating this with you should tell you something about the current state of the Church and explains why Benedict XVI would feel comfortable speaking this way.  He has a whole army that is willing to defend this mockery.

You're someone who's either easily manipulated or interested in doing some manipulating yourself.   I personally don't appreciate having my comments twisted viciously by malign or ignorant agencies, and I'm sure you don't either, but your comments taken at face value are very offensive and have very little informational value.
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