Refusal of the Extraordinary Form could be considered as a rupture of communion
#11
(12-20-2010, 01:41 PM)MaterLaeta Wrote: I guess I see so much negative, that I am trying to at least look for ANY positive developments.

No such thing. We're all doomed.
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#12
(12-20-2010, 01:49 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(12-20-2010, 01:41 PM)MaterLaeta Wrote: I guess I see so much negative, that I am trying to at least look for ANY positive developments.

No such thing. We're all doomed.

That's my take as well.
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#13
The problem is collegiality, which prevents all other problems from being addressed in any meaningful way.  From Satis Cognitum:

Quote:But the Episcopal order is rightly judged to be in communion with Peter, as Christ commanded, if it be subject to and obeys Peter; otherwise it necessarily becomes a lawless and disorderly crowd. It is not sufficient for the due preservation of the unity of the faith that the head should merely have been charged with the office of superintendent, or should have been invested solely with a power of direction. But it is absolutely necessary that he should have received real and sovereign authority which the whole community is bound to obey.

Since Paul VI, the Papacy has become a directing office, an admonishing office, a superintendancy.  Many of the Bishops in "full communion" will not follow and obey if told to do something they find distasteful, like return to Tradition.
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#14
Yes, false collegiality is a huge problem, and JP2 let the bishops go nuts because of it.  Now that the cow is out of the barn, it would be difficult for B16 to drag some bishops to Rome and denigrate them, assuming he would want to.

The inmates are running the asylum.
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#15
Even though are Bishop is good compared to many as far as giving us access to the TLM I can't help but think from what I have witnessed that we are just tolerated and in reality they really wish us Latin Mass people would just go away so they wouldn't have to deal with us anymore. At least the Bishop does come to our First Communion and Confirmation Mass.

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#16
(12-20-2010, 03:18 PM)Petertherock Wrote: Even though are Bishop is good compared to many as far as giving us access to the TLM I can't help but think from what I have witnessed that we are just tolerated and in reality they really wish us Latin Mass people would just go away so they wouldn't have to deal with us anymore.

Probably, but so what?  If we wanted to be liked we'd just go to the local Teen Mass or roll in the aisles with the Charismatics.

Toleration is also a huge step up from just 10 years ago when they were trying to excommunicate us.
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#17
(12-20-2010, 03:25 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(12-20-2010, 03:18 PM)Petertherock Wrote: Even though are Bishop is good compared to many as far as giving us access to the TLM I can't help but think from what I have witnessed that we are just tolerated and in reality they really wish us Latin Mass people would just go away so they wouldn't have to deal with us anymore.

Probably, but so what?  If we wanted to be liked we'd just go to the local Teen Mass or roll in the aisles with the Charismatics.

Toleration is also a huge step up from just 10 years ago when they were trying to excommunicate us.

That is true. I guess it gives us more opportunity to be charitable. When you have NO Priests coming in and screaming at our schola director because it's his fault this priest didn't inform him that he had a baptism going on.

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#18
(12-20-2010, 01:41 PM)MaterLaeta Wrote: I guess I see so much negative, that I am trying to at least look for ANY positive developments.

A really good SSPX priest told me, we want signs to tell us we are on the right path, we want to see change and progress.  But we live by faith.  We have to be ready and willing to go all the way without getting validations in this life.
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#19
(12-20-2010, 02:41 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: The problem is collegiality, which prevents all other problems from being addressed in any meaningful way.  From Satis Cognitum:

Quote:But the Episcopal order is rightly judged to be in communion with Peter, as Christ commanded, if it be subject to and obeys Peter; otherwise it necessarily becomes a lawless and disorderly crowd. It is not sufficient for the due preservation of the unity of the faith that the head should merely have been charged with the office of superintendent, or should have been invested solely with a power of direction. But it is absolutely necessary that he should have received real and sovereign authority which the whole community is bound to obey.

Since Paul VI, the Papacy has become a directing office, an admonishing office, a superintendancy.  Many of the Bishops in "full communion" will not follow and obey if told to do something they find distasteful, like return to Tradition.

Thats just it since VII the Pope has become nothing but a figurehead. He is like a principal of a middle school and the bishops are the bad kids. They aint going to listen to no Principal. Take it from one who was "on forced leave" from school a lot and spent more time in the Principals office then in a classroom. As a kid it makes you feel big by ignoring the highest authority in school. Same thing with the Bishops and the Pope. Especially with the current paper tiger occupying the Chair of Peter.
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#20
(12-21-2010, 07:01 PM)Baskerville Wrote: Especially with the current paper tiger occupying the Chair of Peter.

Once again we see a positive thread derailed by people taking shots at the pope. 

However, at least no one asked Baskerville if he is a sedevacanist.
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