Restore the minor orders!
#41
(01-12-2011, 01:41 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: I don't have time to address the article on the Society's website in full, but it seems to be intellectually dishonest by ignoring very large amounts of evidence of a continuous tradition of married clergy in the East. One can't simply assert that the Eastern churches just invented married/non-continent clergy in 692. I believe MagisterMusicae, an SSPX schoolteacher himself, offered a refutation of various points in the article some time back, but I can't remember for sure.

Either way, this is still tertiary to the matter of the usage of orders lower than the priesthood in general.

Well I agree with that.

I also think it is peculiar that there are no recent (last few centuries) Papal pronouncements on the matter saying what that particular article says.  If all of the married Eastern clergy were excommunicates, would no Pope point this out, simply because of duritia cordis orientalis?  But again, this is probably a separate issue worthy of its own discussion.
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#42
An interesting question related to this matter.

What sort of life should permanent deacons lead?  Would they have jobs or careers in the secular world, or would they be "full-time" in their sacred duties.  If deacons do work ordinary jobs in the secular world, what kind of clerical dress should they wear?

Of course, we are being arm-chair canonists, but they are interesting questions.
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#43
(01-19-2011, 01:56 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: What sort of life should permanent deacons lead?  Would they have jobs or careers in the secular world, or would they be "full-time" in their sacred duties.

Ideally, they'd be full-time Church employees. As I always say, fire all the old lady secretaries and replace them with clerics. Every parish ought to have a pastor in charge of spiritual affairs, and a deacon in charge of temporal affairs as business manager and distributor of alms. Deacons should also be in charge of RCIA (or whatever method of catechesis is used), the altar society and choir (which ideally would be united, rather than separate activities). There's way too much stuff for them to do to have secular jobs. Deacons should also have first priority in applying for any teaching position in a Catholic school of any kind; definitely before teaching sisters. I'd say half of what ordinary Catholics think priests ought to do, and all of what teaching sisters are supposed to do, are actually supposed to be done by deacons. If you implemented my model as outlined above, there wouldn't be any problem of overworked and exhausted priests. They could dedicate all their time to the liturgy, prayer, sacraments and giving counsel to parishioners where it's needed most.

Quote:If deacons do work ordinary jobs in the secular world, what kind of clerical dress should they wear?

If it's a desk job, I'd say a clerical suit is alright. Use a white shirt instead of black, if some distinction between priest and deacon is desired. But deacons ought to be allowed to wear Roman collars everywhere.
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#44
Ah, good points.  There is plenty of work to keep deacons "on the job" full time.  Interesting to consider.  Not only do you have Catholic schools but Catholic hospitals and other social services. 

You are on to something here!!!

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#45
(01-19-2011, 02:07 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: Ideally, they'd be full-time Church employees. As I always say, fire all the old lady secretaries and replace them with clerics.

:chainsaw: :angrywom: :censored:
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#46
(01-19-2011, 02:29 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: You are on to something here!!!

HK has his thinking hat on. Never underestimate a thinking hat.

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#47
(01-19-2011, 02:33 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(01-19-2011, 02:29 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: You are on to something here!!!

HK has his thinking hat on. Never underestimate a thinking hat.

He pointed out that a concern of mine is completely unfounded.

Perhaps HK should begin the pious sodality for the restoration of the Minor Orders.

HK, you mentioned elsewhere that the Tridentine fathers considered the restoration of the permanent diaconate.  Do you have a source for this?
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#48
(01-19-2011, 02:37 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: Perhaps HK should begin the pious sodality for the restoration of the Minor Orders.

That would be nice.
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#49
Alright HK, you have my excited and sold on the idea of teaching brothers or teaching Deacons, but I don't share your rejection of teaching sisters.  Why not a both/and approach?  I think men and women have complimentary strengths as teachers.
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#50
(01-12-2011, 01:41 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: One can't simply assert that the Eastern churches just invented married/non-continent clergy in 692.

The people who assert that the present Eastern discipline was an innovation of the Council in Trullo (a completely Byzantine enterprise), don't seem to notice that the non-Byzantine ("Nestorian" and "Monophysite") Eastern churches follow the same discipline,. and they were not even represented at Trullo, having ben out of communion with both Rome and Constantinople for hundreds of years.
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