Beatification of JPII
#31
Catholic Encyclopedia Wrote:The Catholic Church canonizes or beatifies only those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue, and only after this has been proved by common repute for sanctity and by conclusive arguments.
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#32
(01-13-2011, 12:43 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:
Catholic Encyclopedia Wrote:The Catholic Church canonizes or beatifies only those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue, and only after this has been proved by common repute for sanctity and by conclusive arguments.

Still, beatifications are not infallible so it's possible that they can be questioned, at least in theory.

What I said earlier is that there must be a grave reason to question them.
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#33
Quote:Stage II – Beatification
For the beatification of a Servant of God, a miracle attributed to his intercession, verified after his death, is necessary. The required miracle must be proven through the appropriate canonical investigation, following a procedure analogous to that for heroic virtues. This investigation too is concluded with the appropriate decree. Once the two decrees are promulgated (regarding the heroic virtues or martyrdom and the miracle) the Holy Father decides on beatification, which is the concession of limited public veneration – usually only in the diocese, region, or religious community in which the Servant of God lived. With beatification the candidate receives the titled of Blessed.

Stage III – Canonization
For canonization another miracle is needed, attributed to the intercession of the Blessed and having occurred after his beatification. The methods for affirming the miracle are the same as those followed for beatification. Canonization is understood as the concession and requirement of public veneration in the Universal Church. With canonization, the Blessed acquires the title of Saint.
http://www.nccbuscc.org/comm/SaintsFinal.pdf

Is this not still the process?

If so, even if the individual is disagreeable to the status we would prefer of a Pope, God is the one who determines who he grants to Heaven. Miracles by way of saintly intercession are only possible for those in Heaven, hence their use for beatification/canonization.
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#34
In the book that I am reading "This is the Faith" it was discussing the Saints and it says that none of the Saints Canonized by the Church can have this honor questioned. In fact here is the direct quote...

Even our enemies have to acknowledge that the Catholic Church alone is capable of producing such people, and they realize also that the Church has never proclaimed anyone a Saint who has not been absolutely worthy of that honor. None of our Saints has ever had his character attacked by even the bitterest enemies of the Church.

So, JPII would be the end of this line.

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#35
(01-13-2011, 07:23 PM)Petertherock Wrote: In the book that I am reading "This is the Faith" it was discussing the Saints and it says that none of the Saints Canonized by the Church can have this honor questioned. In fact here is the direct quote...

Even our enemies have to acknowledge that the Catholic Church alone is capable of producing such people, and they realize also that the Church has never proclaimed anyone a Saint who has not been absolutely worthy of that honor. None of our Saints has ever had his character attacked by even the bitterest enemies of the Church.

So, JPII would be the end of this line.

I think that is an imagined piety.  Ask the Anglicans about St. Pius V after he excommunicated Elizabeth, for example. 
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#36
(01-13-2011, 07:23 PM)Petertherock Wrote: In the book that I am reading "This is the Faith" it was discussing the Saints and it says that none of the Saints Canonized by the Church can have this honor questioned. In fact here is the direct quote...

Even our enemies have to acknowledge that the Catholic Church alone is capable of producing such people, and they realize also that the Church has never proclaimed anyone a Saint who has not been absolutely worthy of that honor. None of our Saints has ever had his character attacked by even the bitterest enemies of the Church.

So, JPII would be the end of this line.

I think St. Peter had his character attacked by the Romans when they declared him a criminal.
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#37
(01-13-2011, 07:23 PM)Petertherock Wrote: In the book that I am reading "This is the Faith" it was discussing the Saints and it says that none of the Saints Canonized by the Church can have this honor questioned. In fact here is the direct quote...

Even our enemies have to acknowledge that the Catholic Church alone is capable of producing such people, and they realize also that the Church has never proclaimed anyone a Saint who has not been absolutely worthy of that honor. None of our Saints has ever had his character attacked by even the bitterest enemies of the Church.

So, JPII would be the end of this line.

And St Athanasius was accused of misappropriating grain and using violence as a method of coercion.

See: Athanasius and Constantius: theology and politics in the Constantinian empire By Timothy David Barnes
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#38
(01-12-2011, 06:45 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote: Does beatification imply orthodoxy?

No, nor does it imply a life free from scandal or from immorality. Charlemagne, an adulterer in his life, is venerated as a Beatus.
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#39
Yeah, Tyndale had some things to say about St. Thomas More, and Luther accused St. Thomas Aquinas of various paganisms, etc. The Saints get slandered a lot. Shoot, what about Bl. Pius IX--he gets dragged through the mud all the time and so does the soon to be beatified Pius XII. Read some Eastern Orthodox polemics and you'll see some nasty stuff about St. Francis. People also tried to spread rumors about Padre Pio. Many people here venerate Archbishop Lefebrve and we all know how's he's been treated. A lot of the martyrs would put to death on trumped up charges too.

Anyway, one of the main trad complaints related to John Paul II is that he doesn't have his character attacked enough--everybody within and without the Church praises him, calls him great, etc. In fact, I have seen it argued on forums that because the world loved him so much he could not possibly be a saint.
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#40
(01-13-2011, 09:23 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: In fact, I have seen it argued on forums that because the world loved him so much he could not possibly be a saint.

Considering who usually praises John Paul II and the reasons for it, the argument has merit.

This world is full of wickedness, prey to Satan its prince, and it's getting farther and farther away from God.
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