Jimmy Akin, Patrick Coffin
#21
(01-16-2011, 07:16 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: In any case, whoever wrote it certainly applies it to me since I don't "merely prefer" traditional Catholicism.  And if Akin supports that kind of commentary on his blog, given other things he has said, then my opinion he agrees with it to some extent.

There is a sort of trad who is somewhere in between "merely prefer" and "Novus Ordo is invalid".  That is where I fit and that is where you fit.  Some people don't seem to realize that this kind of position exists.  They only deal with the extremes.  I haven't read enough of Akin to know if he is one of these.
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#22
(01-16-2011, 07:22 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(01-16-2011, 07:16 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: In any case, whoever wrote it certainly applies it to me since I don't "merely prefer" traditional Catholicism.  And if Akin supports that kind of commentary on his blog, given other things he has said, then my opinion he agrees with it to some extent.

There is a sort of trad who is somewhere in between "merely prefer" and "Novus Ordo is invalid".  That is where I fit and that is where you fit.  Some people don't seem to realize that this kind of position exists.  They only deal with the extremes.  I haven't read enough of Akin to know if he is one of these.

Fair enough.
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#23
Both interesting reads. These are also pretty old, pre-Motu Proprio. A lot has changed since then. Like Jayne, I also think he is not criticizing the TLM, but certain attitudes that may lack a little charity. I mean, we have somewhat of an example in this very thread...that someone is to not be taken seriously because of his first name. I mean, really, if you want an example of elitist, smug comments, look no further than this thread!

So, again though, fast forward to 2011, based on what I've heard him saying on the radio for the past 2 years or so, I think Mr. Akin, is a brilliant apologist and am very much looking forward to reading his book.  8)
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#24
(01-16-2011, 07:28 PM)Beatissima Mariae Wrote: Both interesting reads. These are also pretty old, pre-Motu Proprio. A lot has changed since then. Like Jayne, I also think he is not criticizing the TLM, but certain attitudes that may lack a little charity. I mean, we have somewhat of an example in this very thread...that someone is to not be taken seriously because of his first name. I mean, really, if you want an example of elitist, smug comments, look no further than this thread!

Neo-Catholics abound with elitist comments.  That's not a "trad" exclusive thing.

Quote:So, again though, fast forward to 2011, based on what I've heard him saying on the radio for the past 2 years or so, I think Mr. Akin, is a brilliant apologist and am very much looking forward to reading his book.  8)

So you agree with his response on JP2's kissing of the Koran?  That maybe he didn't know it was the Koran, etc.?

Apologetics starts with an honest appraisal of truth.  If you make excuses, then you're not an apologist but someone engaging in PR, which is what most of these Neo-Catholic apologists actually do.  They don't promote the Faith, they promote their version of what the post-Conciliar Catholic worldview should be: a reform-of-the-reform with JP2 "The Great" leading the charge.  Promoting the faith would be sticking to questions of the Catechism.  The problem is they characterize their worldview as the Catholic way when it is unproven as such.  There is nothing that says Cdl. Mahony's vision is any less Catholic than theirs when looked at in the context of the post-Council Church.

Sure, they're charismatic, they're intelligent, and I have no doubt of their love for the Church and Christ.  All of those things get people listening to them.  Honey attracts more flies than vinegar. 

But they're selling something other than the faith - they're selling a non-traditional worldview rooted in ambiguous documents, and that worldview leads to problems.

Really, most of them are nothing more than I am:  theological pundits with keyboards; many don't have any theological degree whatsoever (like me), and the ones that do often have Protestant degrees which can (but not necessarily) cause a whole other set of problems.

If you're going to listen to him, at least separate the wheat from the chaff.  Anything he says that doesn't come out of a traditional Catechism I would take with a grain of salt.
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#25
Here's something simple yet profoundly Christian that the neo-Catholic crowd can't seem to understand:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema." (Gal. 1:8 )
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#26
(01-16-2011, 01:49 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: In my opinion, Jimmy Akin gave some real bad advice on that show regarding Santa Claus back at Christmas time (this is the one episode that momentarily comes to mine). He retains some of his Protestant sensibilities and biases - that's the overall feeling I come away with.

IMHO, Akin is a very bad moralist.  He should stick to apologetics and stay out of the advice business.
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#27
(01-16-2011, 05:45 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: Neither of these people support traditional Catholicism in any tangible way.  As far as theology and Church goes, Akin has made some rather dubious statements in the past.

I would personally avoid them for the most part.  If you post them here, don't be surprised if you get a violent reaction.

The voice of sanity!

Coffin and Akin are two of the most arrogant and proud men I have ever heard on what purports to be Catholic radio.  Jimmy Akin retains more than a little of his protestant mindset.  He is strictly a Vatican II Catholic.  I, too, have heard him give really bad moral advice (and religious advice too). 

As for Mr. Coffin, he always seems to be straining at the bit to get a word or twenty in edgewise.  In fact,  I often have wondered why he even bothers to have any guests at all on the show since he always is anxious to show that he knows more about the subject than the guest (who is supposed to be some kind of expert on it).



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#28
(01-17-2011, 04:56 PM)Lavalliere Wrote: Jimmy Akin retains more than a little of his protestant mindset.  He is strictly a Vatican II Catholic.  I, too, have heard him give really bad moral advice (and religious advice too).   

Ok, indulge me. Just sock it to me, knock me out with evidence of all this 'bad moral advice', 'bad religious advice' I hear about... his copious amounts of protestant carryovers...

Just any kind of specifics will be great. I need to make sure I'm not following some kind of kook! After all, the guys name is Jimmy! How kooky is that! Big dumb VII hick!
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#29
(01-17-2011, 06:18 PM)Beatissima Mariae Wrote:
(01-17-2011, 04:56 PM)Lavalliere Wrote: Jimmy Akin retains more than a little of his protestant mindset.  He is strictly a Vatican II Catholic.  I, too, have heard him give really bad moral advice (and religious advice too).   

Ok, indulge me. Just sock it to me, knock me out with evidence of all this 'bad moral advice', 'bad religious advice' I hear about... his copious amounts of protestant carryovers...

Just any kind of specifics will be great. I need to make sure I'm not following some kind of kook! After all, the guys name is Jimmy! How kooky is that! Big dumb VII hick!

This is going to turn into a Jimmy Akin bash-fest, you realize that, don't you?  Well, since you asked for it.

Problem 1:
He prefers the KJV over Catholic Bibles for Bible study.

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/biblever.htm

Quote:Since I do mostly Bible study rather than simple Bible reading, I also prefer using literal rather than dynamic translations. My personal preference is for the New King James Version, but since this is not available in an edition with the deuterocanonicals, I normally use the Revised Standard Version: Catholic Edition.

...

(5) For example, the New King James Version, my personal favorite for doing Bible study, has a few, unfortunate Protestant renderings. It translates the Greek word logidzetai ("reckon") as "impute" term carrying more of the forensic implications that characterize the Protestant doctrine of salvation. It also tends to translate erga as "works" when it suits the Protestant cause but as "deeds" when it would suit the Catholic cause, as in Romans 2:6-7.

He also unfortunately seems to trust Erasmus' Catholicism:

Quote:A false claim; we have no perfect set of manuscripts; furthermore, the manuscripts on which the King James is based were compiled by the Catholic scholar Erasmus.

While there is much to like about Erasmus, there is a lot to dislike about him with regard to the Protestant Revolt (Reformation).  Praise of Erasmus on Scripture is something usually - not exclusively, but usually -  found in Protestant scholars.  As the CE notes:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05510b.htm

Quote:The literary works issued by Erasmus up to this time made him the intellectual father of the Reformation.

If nothing else, Erasmus had clear Protestant leanings and provided a lot of the ammunition for the "Reformers".  There is a reason the KJV is based on his stuff, and it isn't because of his "Catholicness" but rather the lack thereof.  Read the full CE article on Erasmus (linked above) for a better understanding.

This is why, as I said, you need to sift what he writes.  He is not all bad; the problems mostly come when he veers into offering personal opinions.  Fair enough; avoid his personal opinions.
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#30
Hey, thanks Quis. I'm going to take a look at all this.
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