Raw milk
#21
Croppyboy Wrote:Veganism, which I believe some here subscribe to, is utter rubbish. It is based on junk-science manufactured by the radical environmental/animal-rights activists to further their agenda.

I am a vegan Croppyboy, and it's not like I have a subscription to it like a magazine. You are the one which broached the subject of veganism, which apparently you know so much about as to call it rubbish. Sorry Croppyboy, I have been vegan for over ten years. If it were rubbish, like you say it is, I would be dead or sick already. I like how you also equate us vegans with having some kind of an agenda to push. Like we're going to convert the world into not eating meat. Please... While animal and environmental rights groups are something slightly connected to being vegan, as most people in those groups are vegan, I don't see why there should be antipathy towards those groups who are exposing the horrible abuses which go on in the respective industries. Since most people can't stand to think about how their dinner magically appeared on their dinner table, the people who point those things out are somehow 'furthering their agenda'..?. This is 'utterly' fallacious.

Animals are inferior to us humans, but that does not give us the right to abuse them. But hey, if you want to support those industries I won't try to stop you. However I will point out and show you why I do not support them. I believe it's best not to support them.

Please tell me what exactly have the 'radical environmental/animal-rights' groups done to you which has affected your personal life? I can only guess absolutely nothing. You think I support PETA? Certainly not!

BTW, here's a question for you: Would you yourself ever work in a slaughterhouse, where you would have to get your hands dirty? How about on a dairy 'farm' where the animals never see any sunshine and are pumped up with Growth Bovine Hormones and fed a diet of other dead cancerous animals?

Another point I would like to make is that most, if not all, natural remedies/homeopathic doctors and clinics put their patients on a vegan diet. These are patients coming in with 'incurable' diseases like cancer, who have been eating meat and dairy products their whole life. That is why they are sick. Because they eat way too much meat and dairy. This is not 'junk' science.



Finally in closing I would refer anyone interested in listening to this archived radio show from Jeff Rense. He is interviewing Robert Cohen, the author of the website http://www.notmilk.com

This is very important information.




Click Here Hour 1 [2.37 MB]

Click Here Hour 2 [2.37 MB]

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#22
ernestus Wrote:...
You better believe it's junk science because it is. Just because animals aren't raised right doesn't mean you shouldn't eat meat and dairy, it means you should start eating meat and dairy from animals raised properly like pastured and grassfed livestock.
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#23
Animals are animals. We may "mistreat" them all that we want, as long as some good comes from the mistreatment. If that means pumping them up with Bovine Growth Hormones and keeping them in small pens on a feedlot, so be it. That is not ideal, but it does provide tasty steak. If it involves sticking a tube down the gullet of a goose and force feeding them until their liver is several times the normal size, for Foie Gras, that is fine too. Animals and Man are completely different. The only rights which we owe them are not to cause them undue physical pain simply for the sadistic pleasure which might result. If there is some good to humans which results in the physical suffering, then it is quite justified.
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#24
orangemetal Wrote:
ernestus Wrote:...
You better believe it's junk science because it is. Just because animals aren't raised right doesn't mean you shouldn't eat meat and dairy, it means you should start eating meat and dairy from animals raised properly like pastured and grassfed livestock.

Conjecture on your part. But lets not have that get in the way of any reasoned debate. If you want to move to the country and/or raise your own animals, more power to ya. But that is not possible for us city folk who are 'utterly' dependent on grocery stores. There really is no demand for 'cruelty-free', 'free-range', animal products because most people cant afford it.
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#25
DominusTecum Wrote:Animals are animals. We may "mistreat" them all that we want, as long as some good comes from the mistreatment. If that means pumping them up with Bovine Growth Hormones and keeping them in small pens on a feedlot, so be it. That is not ideal, but it does provide tasty steak. If it involves sticking a tube down the gullet of a goose and force feeding them until their liver is several times the normal size, for Foie Gras, that is fine too. Animals and Man are completely different. The only rights which we owe them are not to cause them undue physical pain simply for the sadistic pleasure which might result. If there is some good to humans which results in the physical suffering, then it is quite justified.

You are the type that only wants the finished product. Why don't you get a knife and kill your food for once. Show those animals that you're the man!



So DT, I forgot if you said that kosher slaughter was 'justified' back when that thread was going? If you say it's not, then that would be a bit hypocrital on your part.

One other thing, how about hunting for sport? Is it okay to kill animals so that we can have a big deer head hanging on the wall?
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#26
I'm just wondering if anyone here has ever killed an animal before. What was it like?
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#27
Click Here Short clip about kosher slaughter in real media format
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#28
ernestus Wrote:How about on a dairy 'farm' where the animals never see any sunshine and are pumped up with Growth Bovine Hormones and fed a diet of other dead cancerous animals? 

And that is exactly what you don't have when you get raw milk from grass-fed dairy cows.
 
Also, my family purchases all their beef from a friend who operates an organic farm. The cows are put to pasture - none of that "feed" which does indeed, as ernestus stated, contain dead animal tissue. In fact, that type of "feed" is the very thing (in my understanding) that caused the outbreak of Mad Cow disease.
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#29
ernestus Wrote:I'm just wondering if anyone here has ever killed an animal before. What was it like?
Killed some ants once.  Not really much to say about it.  Quick.  Painless.  End of story. 
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#30
Quote:You are the type that only wants the finished product. Why don't you get a knife and kill your food for once. Show those animals that you're the man!
 
I'd be happy to. Killing animals is no problem. It's a necessary thing for humans to survive. I've killed rabbits and chickens. I don't imagine it'd be any more difficult to kill a pig or a cow.

Quote:So DT, I forgot if you said that kosher slaughter was 'justified' back when that thread was going? If you say it's not, then that would be a bit hypocrital on your part.
 
I don't remember what I said in that thread, but I probably condemned it. I condemn it now. The reason that I condemn it is that it does not enhance either the quality or the quantity of meat. Actually, I've heard that it REDUCES the quality of the meat, because the animal dies in pain, with adrenaline active, rather than simply being killed quickly and relatively painlessly. It is needless cruelty, because the Mosaic law no longer binds. If there was any reason for the kosher slaughter, such that it would be a greater benefit to humans to have this kind of meat than "non-kosher," then it would be justified.

Quote:One other thing, how about hunting for sport? Is it okay to kill animals so that we can have a big deer head hanging on the wall?
 
I have always maintained that it is acceptible to kill an animal when hunting if you intend to eat it. I would also maintain that it is acceptible to kill an animal for sport, so long as, again, one's motive is to derive pleasure from "the chase," rather than from causing the death of an animal. I am speaking of foxhunting, here, but I think it is equally applicable to deerhunting, or any other sort.

ernestus Wrote:I'm just wondering if anyone here has ever killed an animal before. What was it like?

 
I didn't find it too bad, it wasn't exactly pleasant the first time, but the thought that the chicken was about to become dinner more than consoled me. The snapping of the neck was the part that unnerved me a little bit, but once you've done it once or twice, no big deal. I imagine that if one grew up on a farm and did it regularly, it would be no problem at all, and one would not even think twice about it. My grandmother's family got most of their meals from their own livestock, and farm families often think nothing about killing kittens if there is no mother and they cannot be kept around and fed. It's life.
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