Raw milk
#61
I know I saw somewhere in this thread the statement that vegan's aren't fat.  Bahahaha. I remember when I was a kid a rather huge woman who lived the next street over, she was vegan.  I remember thinking what on earth is this woman eating?  Now that I'm an adult, and understand that carbs make people fat, and not fat per se, I can guess what made this woman fat on her vegan diet...carbs, carbs and more carbs...pasta, bread, potatoes, etc.  Pick up a copy of Atkins diet, Ernestus...it too goes into a little detail how a vegan diet is not healthy. 


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#62
Atkins is not exactly a healthy diet over any long period, either.
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#63
Ernestus stated in a previous post that he doesn't feel well when he eats diary and meat, so we should cut him some slack. With that being said, I tend to believe that it's the processing of the meat and dairy nowadays that would cause one to feel that way after consuming it, so I wonder, ernestus, if you tried some raw milk and some organic, pasture-fed beef, would it still have the same effect on you? :)
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#64
JLeigh Wrote:Ernestus stated in a previous post that he doesn't feel well when he eats diary and meat, so we should cut him some slack. With that being said, I tend to believe that it's the processing of the meat and dairy nowadays that would cause one to feel that way after consuming it, so I wonder, ernestus, if you tried some raw milk and some organic, pasture-fed beef, would it still have the same effect on you? :)

 
When I moved from a mostly vegan vegetarian diet to a "typical" healthy diet it took me a week or two to adjust.  Your body aclimates to what kind of food regularly goes in and when by adjusting your enzyme supply.  If you eat primarily carbs for a long period of time your pancreas will emit alot less proteinase and more of the various carbohydrate digestive enzymes.  The result of eating a meal with alot of protein in such a situation would be a sour stomach, but in time the body does readjust.
 
Just saying this because even if someone like Ernestus were to try some of the purist and finest raw-milk or organic beef, it would probably cause him some immediate distress.  The same would go for someone who was on a low-carb diet for a long period of time who suddenly ate a baked potato.  It doesn't necessarily mean the potato is poison.
 
For anyone who drastically changes the general makeup of their diet (ie high carb to low carb, low fat to high fat)  it's a really good idea to take enzyme supplements until your body adjusts.  You can't overdose on any of them (with the exception of bile) as they are inactive when not in use.
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#65
I can't believe there are 5 pages about Raw Milk!
 
I've never tried it, but it sounds alright to me, I like whole milk, can drink2%, and I gag on skim milk.
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#66
ernestus . . . mate . . . take a deep breath . . . So I “twisted “what you wrote? Do you deny writing those things?

Do you deny equating the killing of animals with serial murder? (p.3)

Do you deny denigrating hunters and ascribing to them nefarious motives? (p.3)

Do you deny comparing the euthanizing of animals with the euthanizing of humans? (p.3)

It seems to me, mate, that before you begin advising on the moderation of my tone, you should review your previous posts; they were not “in a mild tone of explanation”. Additionally, I don’t believe my posts were hostile and my voice was never raised. Nor did I see the need to resort to ad hominem attacks. Are you trying to paint yourself as the innocent victim being attacked by the cruel, aggressive, neanderthalistic, meat-eating hunter?

ernestus, here is a final question for you: Are you opposed to the killing of animals by humans? If you answer no, how does this square with your previous remarks?
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#67
"...My aged father did me deny, and the name they gave me was the 'Croppy boy'..."
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#68
orangemetal Wrote:
ernestus Wrote:Okay, now you are twisting what I wrote throughout this thread, trying to make it look like I said something which I didn't. I wish you would stop being a smart-allek who knows everything. First with your vocabulary lesson, and now this attack, which to me only proves yourself to be a crass individual. Remember that it was you who started it, by calling veganism 'utter rubbish' and based on manufactured 'junk science'. My responses to you were in a mild tone of explanation, and was responded to with more grand standing in an aggressive hostile tone, as if you are talking down at me, like I am one of your hunting targets. This is the mingling section of the forum. I suggest you lower your voice a little...
ernestus, just face it it doesn't matter what you say the truth will always be that a vegan diet is a very dangerous and unhealthy diet. You need vitamins A, D, B-12 and you can only get those from animal foods. Everything Vegan i see looks sickly pale and ready to die from cancer that's no way to live and it's not healthy. Let me ask you, "do you ever eat any meat or dairy?" Do you know that certain saturated fats are antibacterial and antiviral? Do you know the only reason some people need braces is because they don't get enough vitamin A & D from pastured animal foods? If you don't know these things please read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price, those scales may just fall off your eyes.
 
Kyrie eleison
Jonathan


orangemetal,

Just face it, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself, I'm not going to change just because you say I should. What you say about needing vitamins and protein from animals is the most common misunderstanding of what people think about the vegan diet. I do not eat any meat or dairy. However, certain situations come about, which do necessitate me to eat what is put in front of me, and I oblige, so as not to be rude. But this is very seldom the case.

Garlic also contains anti-viral enzymes. You must eat it raw though, because when you cook the garlic, it kills off those anti-viral enzymes. And the same is true with most fruits and vegetables. Eating them raw is the most healthy way. Cooking takes out those needed vitamins, nutrients, and enzymes. I'm not really sure what needing braces has to do with being vegan. But consider these statistics:

Nations with the greatest need for X-ray machines also have
the highest milk and dairy consumption rates.

Nations with the highest rates of osteoporosis include
Denmark, Norway, Holland, and Sweden.

Nations with the highest rates of breast cancer include
Denmark, Norway, Holland, and Sweden.

Nations with the highest rates of cheese consumption include
Denmark, Norway, Holland, and Sweden.


As far as vegans looking sickly, pale and ready to die from cancer, I would have to say that that is not the case in my own personal experience. I have been vegan now for quite some time, and have not taken any OTC medicines (e.g. tylenol, nyquil), nor needed to see a doctor for any illness since. Headaches are not caused by a lack of asprin in your body, and the old saying goes 'an apple a day keeps the doctor away'. Notice it does not say 'animal foods keep the doctor away'.

Thats all for now.
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#69
I have a hard time believing that it should be necessary to defend the vegan diet, when it is so obviously a good thing. I have followed it in the past, and it was truly grand. Mostly I'm too lazy to do it now. I think you have to be a little bit more creative.
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#70
Croppyboy Wrote:ernestus . . . mate . . . take a deep breath . . . So I “twisted “what you wrote? Do you deny writing those things?

Do you deny equating the killing of animals with serial murder? (p.3)

Do you deny denigrating hunters and ascribing to them nefarious motives? (p.3)

Do you deny comparing the euthanizing of animals with the euthanizing of humans? (p.3)

It seems to me, mate, that before you begin advising on the moderation of my tone, you should review your previous posts; they were not “in a mild tone of explanation”. Additionally, I don’t believe my posts were hostile and my voice was never raised. Nor did I see the need to resort to ad hominem attacks. Are you trying to paint yourself as the innocent victim being attacked by the cruel, aggressive, neanderthalistic, meat-eating hunter?

ernestus, here is a final question for you: Are you opposed to the killing of animals by humans? If you answer no, how does this square with your previous remarks?


Croppyboy Wrote:So I “twisted “what you wrote?


Yes, I believe it's what is called the straw-man tactic. You distort what I say, and then attack it. So what you could have done, was ask me to clarify what I wrote, before you infer something that just isn't there.


Croppyboy Wrote:Do you deny equating the killing of animals with serial murder?


Quote:
DominusTecum Wrote:The snapping of the neck was the part that unnerved me a little bit, but once you've done it once or twice, no big deal.

ernestus Wrote:That sounds no different though, than say a serial murderer.

Expanding on this thought, I will stand by it. Serial murderers get used to killing people. After their first victim it gets easier to commit murder again. Most of them probably started out torturing animals when they were young. Saying that killing an animal is no big deal is rather pompous. It's the taking of a life. So my comment is not equating what you think it does. Those who work in the slaughterhouse, who kill animals day and night, have to be careful not to lose their humanity. They get used to taking life, and then it becomes 'no big deal'. I'm not implying anything here. If we don't see eye to eye on this, fine, it makes no difference in the way either of us chooses to live.


Croppyboy Wrote:Do you deny denigrating hunters and ascribing to them nefarious motives?



Quote:
DominusTecum Wrote:I would also maintain that it is acceptible to kill an animal for sport, so long as, again, one's motive is to derive pleasure from "the chase," rather than from causing the death of an animal.

ernestus Wrote:That sounds patently absurd. No hunter 'derives pleasure from the chase'. The hunter is usually in it for the money he gets from selling tusks or other parts like horns or shells. Killing animals makes men feel superior. But men are wimps without their guns. Why don't men fight fair?


In the case of fishing, your just sitting their with a pole in water. There is no chase. Maybe you drive around in a boat looking for dolphins or whales to harpoon. And it's not like you chase after deer either. You have to shoot it from a far off when it's just standing there eating grass, while it doesn't even know you are there scoping it from 100 yards. There again, no chase. I really doubt that you or anyone else here has to hunt for their daily bread either. It just doesn't happen unless you live in Africa or similar conditions.

And yes, hunters do have nefarious motives. Definitely not all of them though. I've seen too many of those videos showing exactly what hunters do. They are hunters by trade.


Croppyboy Wrote:Do you deny comparing the euthanizing of animals with the euthanizing of humans?


Quote:
ernestus Wrote:I'm just wondering if anyone here has ever killed an animal before. What was it like?

miss_fluffy Wrote:I'm pretty sure I killed that deer I hit.  Frankly, I wasn't too concerned about the deer.  They are under-hunted here, they frequently suffer from long starvation due to their uncontrolled numbers.  I probably did it a favor and saved it a long painful death through the drought we've had here this winter.

ernestus Wrote:What is the point then of having animal rescue shelters? And this seems like the euthanasia mind set. Thats how it starts. First we do it animals, then we do it men. It's the same pattern with testing chemicals and drugs on animals first, then men. Although nowadays, I think they just skip right to testing chemicals on men.

Euthanasia is euthanasia. No matter if you euthanize an animal, it's still euthanasia. Nowhere have I equated man with beast though. And the point was that it's in the 'mindset' of putting an animal out of it's misery. Man is now also acceptable to put of their misery according to todays morality. They show this in movies all the time where a horse or something is in so much pain that they kill it, and now the latest is Million Dollar Baby, in which man is mercifully put out of their misery.

Speaking of movies though, in the movie called 'Powder', there is a strange looking fellow as the main character. It's been out for a while now. Anyways, there is a scene in that movie of a hunter killing deer for fun, and this Powder character transfers the suffering of the deer to the man who shot it. That man knows then exactly what the deer goes through, and afterwards no longer goes hunting.



Croppyboy Wrote:ernestus, here is a final question for you: Are you opposed to the killing of animals by humans? If you answer no, how does this square with your previous remarks?

The short answer is no.

However the way it's done today is what I find 'repugnant' to use your word.

Why do people have pets? They show their cats and dogs affection and the pet responds in like manner. So how is it that man is so brutal to other animals? You don't go hunting for your dog in your back yard when you get hungry, and you don't zap them with high voltage, or boil them alive.

We are not living on some indian reservation killing buffalo to make teepees. We have 'mechanically separated chicken'. To me, there is a world of difference there.

The fact is that people only want the finished product, and do not want to see what goes on in the slaughterhouses, or even so called dairy farms. Kids are out there eating cheeseburgers who have no idea that you have to kill a cow to make one, or what that involves.

Finally, I think I have been patient enough through this interrogation of yours. I wish you the best. Thats all for now.
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