Raw milk
miss_fluffy Wrote:
JLeigh Wrote:Ernestus stated in a previous post that he doesn't feel well when he eats diary and meat, so we should cut him some slack. With that being said, I tend to believe that it's the processing of the meat and dairy nowadays that would cause one to feel that way after consuming it, so I wonder, ernestus, if you tried some raw milk and some organic, pasture-fed beef, would it still have the same effect on you? :)

When I moved from a mostly vegan vegetarian diet to a "typical" healthy diet it took me a week or two to adjust.  Your body aclimates to what kind of food regularly goes in and when by adjusting your enzyme supply.  If you eat primarily carbs for a long period of time your pancreas will emit alot less proteinase and more of the various carbohydrate digestive enzymes.  The result of eating a meal with alot of protein in such a situation would be a sour stomach, but in time the body does readjust.
Just saying this because even if someone like Ernestus were to try some of the purist and finest raw-milk or organic beef, it would probably cause him some immediate distress.  The same would go for someone who was on a low-carb diet for a long period of time who suddenly ate a baked potato.  It doesn't necessarily mean the potato is poison.
For anyone who drastically changes the general makeup of their diet (ie high carb to low carb, low fat to high fat)  it's a really good idea to take enzyme supplements until your body adjusts.  You can't overdose on any of them (with the exception of bile) as they are inactive when not in use.

Miss_fluffy, I gather that you have been trained in the scientific community, and that is why you talk about carbs the way you do. Well, to me, scientists don't know everything. They think they know everything, but they don't. Every other week there is a new scientific study claiming 'this' or 'that', and the next year, the scientists come back and say something opposite.

Example: First margarine is good. Then its bad. Then its good again. Then there are eggs. First they are good, then they are bad, then they are good again. It never ends.

I really pitty those people who see some kind of supposedly new healthy diet in those magazines, and then run out like good little shoppers and buy what the magazine says. It's madness. People have to be told what to eat and what not to eat.

Sorry, but nature trumps science in my book. What God made, no scientist can improve upon, and I'm speaking about GMO.

I do question whether you were 'doing it right' sort to speak, when you say that you were experimenting with the vegan diet. There is no question that if you don't eat the right foods you will get sick, however, when done correctly, you don't get sick, and certainly not malnurished.
DominusTecum Wrote:It has to taste good, and most people don't become vegan because they love the taste of lettuce.

There is a myth that vegan food has no taste, or if it does, it tastes like ....

That is so far from the truth. Vegan food is the exact same food you meat eaters eat, just without the meat/dairy.

I for one, am a good cook. I can make delicious food. And it's totally vegan. Vegans are not limited, save most restaraunts, from eating foods that are good. Far from it. Think about it. There are more plants than there are animals.
JLeigh Wrote:Ernestus stated in a previous post that he doesn't feel well when he eats diary and meat, so we should cut him some slack. With that being said, I tend to believe that it's the processing of the meat and dairy nowadays that would cause one to feel that way after consuming it, so I wonder, ernestus, if you tried some raw milk and some organic, pasture-fed beef, would it still have the same effect on you? :)

Tell you what,:cool: I'll be more than happy to come over to your house for dinner. And if that is what you are all eating, I'll eat whatever you put in front of me. :eats:

Like I said, I don't want to be rude, :angel: or give you the idea that your food isn't good enough for me. But I would not cook that for myself. Does that make sense?:thumb:
ernestus Wrote:Sorry, but nature trumps science in my book. What God made, no scientist can improve upon, and I'm speaking about GMO.

Nature cannot actually be contradicted by science, no more than revelation can.   Pseudo-science?  Sure, but not actual science which follows its own rules of observation, etc.  Just by cooking things, adding spices, etc., men are, in an acceptable manner, putting together disparate elements of what God has given them.  
What God has made is good, and cannot be improved upon, and to eat it is fine - whether animal, vegetable, fruit, grain, etc.   Some may not be good for every individual, but all are, in general, "on the menu".   Bon appetit! [Image: gimmefood.gif]
Edited:  ernestus, I sort of mistook what you said above, but I think you know what I am getting at, and you know that I understand your meaning, too, despite my slightly off-the-mark comments.  Cheers!
ernestus Wrote:orangemetal,

Just face it, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself, I'm not going to change just because you say I should.
i never said you have to change, all i'm telling you is that too many observations of primitive cultures that only eat these pastured animal foods have proven that vegan diets are not the best.
ernestus Wrote:What you say about needing vitamins and protein from animals is the most common misunderstanding of what people think about the vegan diet. I do not eat any meat or dairy. However, certain situations come about, which do necessitate me to eat what is put in front of me, and I oblige, so as not to be rude. But this is very seldom the case.
I'm telling you that those situations are helping you and adding years to your life. i should know, i went on a vegan diet and it almost killed me.

ernestus Wrote:Garlic also contains anti-viral enzymes. You must eat it raw though, because when you cook the garlic, it kills off those anti-viral enzymes. And the same is true with most fruits and vegetables. Eating them raw is the most healthy way. Cooking takes out those needed vitamins, nutrients, and enzymes.
This is just not true! Garlic has another phytochemial that when heated has basically the same immune-boosting effects.
ernestus Wrote:I'm not really sure what needing braces has to do with being vegan.
Lots because you can't get vitamin D with just vegetables: vitamin D is more than just a vitamin it's also a hormone that your body needs to have proper bone development specially jaw development without having to get so-called 'corrective' braces.
ernestus Wrote:But consider these statistics:

Nations with the greatest need for X-ray machines also have
the highest milk and dairy consumption rates.

Nations with the highest rates of osteoporosis include
Denmark, Norway, Holland, and Sweden.

Nations with the highest rates of breast cancer include
Denmark, Norway, Holland, and Sweden.

Nations with the highest rates of cheese consumption include
Denmark, Norway, Holland, and Sweden.
This is exactly my point of how much Vegans (and most people for that matter) don't know. These rates of disease are all based on pasteurized/processed milk and dairy products. how many do you think in these studies were drinking RAW milk from grazed cows, sheep, or goats. I don't advocate just any meat or dairy, i advocate raw dairy and meats from truly organically raised and pastured/grazed animals on land that is fertilized with a good many trace minerals and not just potassium, nitrogen, and carbon.
ernestus Wrote:As far as vegans looking sickly, pale and ready to die from cancer, I would have to say that that is not the case in my own personal experience. I have been vegan now for quite some time, and have not taken any OTC medicines (e.g. tylenol, nyquil), nor needed to see a doctor for any illness since. Headaches are not caused by a lack of asprin in your body, and the old saying goes 'an apple a day keeps the doctor away'. Notice it does not say 'animal foods keep the doctor away'.

Thats all for now.
As i said before on your personal experience you yourself say that you eat some animal products and i'm sure that you take some kind of supplement with vitamins A & D. i'll give you a break on this one though as i believe that they were soy-eaters which basically are dead people walking.
As for OTC medicines haven't i had to take any either nor have i gone to a doctor in over 5 years but i eat plenty of meat and dairy.
I have nothing against apples, if i could afford it i'd eat one a day. All i'm saying is that meat and dairy is also necessary for the best physical health. Why else did God put animals here and why did He Himself eat them when He became Man? Why was He more pleased with Abel's animal sacrifice than with Cain's vegetable sacrifice? If meat and dairy (especially milk) is bad how did the human family ever last this long? how did Europe, the cradle of Civilization, last this long when almost all they had was milk and game meat?
I don't think God would tell His people to eat poison or even slightly bad food.
Kyrie eleison
Quote: originally posted by gladius_veritatis

"...My aged father did me deny, and the name they gave me was the 'Croppy boy'..."

Aye! There is also a lesser known version . . .


"Good men and true in this house who dwell,
To a stranger bouchal I pray you tell:
Is the priest at home, or may he be seen?
I would speak a word with Father Green."

"The Priest's at home, boy, and may be seen;
'Tis easy speaking with Father Green.
But you must wait till I go and see
If the Holy Father alone may be."

The youth has enter'd an empty hall;
What a lonely sound has his light footfall!
And the gloomy chamber's chill and bare,
With a vested Priest in a lonely chair.

The youth has knelt to tell his sins:
"Nomine Dei," the youth begins!
At "mea culpa" he beats his breast,
And in broken murmers he speaks the rest.

"At the siege of Ross did my father fall,
And at Gorey my loving brothers all.
I alone am left of my name and race;
I will go to Wexford and take their place.

"I cursed three times since last Easter day;
At mass time once I went to play;
I passed the churchyard one day in haste,
And forgot to pray for my mother's rest.

"I bear no hate against living thing,
But I love my country above my king.
Now, Father! bless me and let me go
To die, if God has ordained it so."

The priest said nought, but a rustling noise
Made the youth look above in wild surprise;
The robes were off, and in scarlet there
Sat a yoeman captain with fiery glare.

With fiery glare and with fury hoarse,
Instead of blessing, he breathed a curse:
"'Twas a good thought, boy, to come here to shrive,
For one short hour is your time to live.

"Upon yon river three tenders float;
The Priest's in one — if he isn't shot!
We hold his house for our Lord the King,
And, amen say I, may all traitors swing!"

At Geneva Barrack that young man died,
And at Passage they have his body laid.
Good people who live in peace and joy,
Breathe a pray'r and a tear for the Croppy Boy.

Loved this discussion!  I know it's old, but it was fun to read through....
My husband is a big fan of raw milk.  Me, I don't really care.  I hate the taste of milk and will only drink it if it is chocolate.  The only time I use milk is when I cook or bake so it gets pasteurized in the process anyways.
Milk is for babies.

However, when it is suitable, it should be raw. It is one of the few things which is specifically meant to be food, and it is designed as it is for a reason.
(02-17-2006, 04:31 AM)Varus Wrote:
Reese Wrote:Thank you Ernestus for posting that information. I was thinking about trying raw milk, but not now. [Image: huhuh.gif] I'm not much of a milk drinker anyway, too many carbs in it. But I sure do love cheese. [Image: gimmefood.gif] My brother worked a good sized dairy farm many years ago, I was a teen at the time. I will never in my life forget that smell [Image: puke.gif], the only thing I've ever smelled worse is driving by a pig farm on a hot summer day. I remember my brother had to get up long before dawn, something like 4 a.m., to milk the cows, done by machine of course. I watched him do it a few times, as it's done more than once a day. They dip the udders in some kind of antibacterial solution, hook the machines up to each cow and it's all sucked into the same tank. Of course the cows are all eliminating waste while they're being milked, straight into trenches just behind them...that is where the horrible smell comes from. I tell ya, it's enough to turn one off of milk permanently.

Horrible smell?? HAHAHAHAHA![Image: biggrin.gif] You don't live in the country, that's for sure.
There is no better smell than in the spring when the farmers are spreading the manour in the fields. It is the very sign of spring![Image: poppy.gif]

Agreed, it is a lovely smell.  Always reminds me of Skiing holidays in Austria

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