Mormon Missionary Friend
#21
(01-31-2011, 08:25 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Jesse what is the mornn counter to the hieroglyphics? Alps the claim the Jews came t America ect and founded a civiliization here isntha supposed the Aztecs? Maya or Inca? Or there predesessors?

When the translation fiasco came out, the Mormon church put one of their best scholars, Hugh Nibley, on it.  He couldn't come up with anything plausible because the scholarly/academic proof is overwhelmingly against Joseph Smith's translation.  What Joseph Smith called The Book of Abraham is actually a part of the Egyptian Book of the Dead called The Book of Breathings.  It is a common document buried with mummies.  Hugh Nibley's best conclusion was that the papyrus that Joseph Smith was looking at was actually the Book of Breathings, but that through that common papyrus God gave Joseph Smith the translation of the Book of Abraham, wherever that may really be.  That's a pretty far fetched explanation and is pretty much the definition of an "ad hoc" explanation to save the idea.

Yes, Mormons believe that the ancestors of same of the Native Americans are Jews.  The Book of Mormon is not specific on where in the Americas they landed, though last I heard (and this was over a decade ago) many Mormon scholars believed that Guatemala was a good location.  They do not trace them to a specific tribe or group, like the Aztecs, etc.  The dates for the Book of Mormon are supposed to be 600 BC - 400 AD.

It's pretty crazy that I've got all this Mormon stuff floating around in my head.  Ay.  I often wonder how much I'm still subconsciously influenced by it in my worldview, etc.  That's a bummer to think about.  Deo gratias for the Church!

Pax,
Jesse
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#22
Try bringing up that I think it was Brigham Young's daughter became Catholic after  priest visited them.  That info is VERY hard to find.
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#23
As a one time mormon myself, I would advise to not make accusations, or go for any "gotchya" type revelations. When they are on the mission, they are fully indoctrinated, if you hurl anything even approaching an insult or accusation it will merely bounce off of him. He'll simply say to himself; "my poor friend is being manipulated by the adversary".  For the same reason, trying to convert him through dialogue/debate is virtually impossible. Just tell him that you have an appreciation for the human qualities he has that would lead him to make sacrifices for something he believes to be right, but the truth is that you are both speaking 2 ENTIRELY different religious languages, even though it can seem similar on the surface at some points, therefor talking about his religion with you is totally useless. In reality the only thing you can do is pray for him and wait for the opening someday in the future when he might be open.
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#24
(01-31-2011, 08:25 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Jesse what is the mornn counter to the hieroglyphics? Alps the claim the Jews came t America ect and founded a civiliization here isntha supposed the Aztecs? Maya or Inca? Or there predesessors?
There are obscure scholars and institutes (not officially attached to the hierarchy) who examine questions such as this in order to attempt to give scholarly explanations about various parts of mormon history and doctrine. But the truth is that the vast majority of mormons-including the hierarchy(general authorities)- don't even concern themselves with such things. Everything is about revelation, both through the prophet and personal revelation, therefor you can present all the proof in the world to a true believing mormon in contradiction to doctrine and official history- it won't matter one wit. It's all about the heart, feelings, etc. That's how all things are confirmed in the mind of a mormon.  Being a mormon feels right,  and no intellectual argument can contradict that.
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#25
You might try to get in touch with Dark Knight, a Fisheater who doesn't post much anymore.  But you might flag him down with a PM.

He was a big Mormon before his conversion.
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#26
(02-03-2011, 10:34 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: You might try to get in touch with Dark Knight, a Fisheater who doesn't post much anymore.  But you might flag him down with a PM.

He was a big Mormon before his conversion.

Why'd he lose weight?
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#27
(02-03-2011, 10:42 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(02-03-2011, 10:34 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: You might try to get in touch with Dark Knight, a Fisheater who doesn't post much anymore.  But you might flag him down with a PM.

He was a big Mormon before his conversion.

Why'd he lose weight?

Wakka wakka wakka.

It was the baggage, not the weight.
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#28
(02-03-2011, 10:34 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: He was a big Mormon before his conversion.

He has lost weight since then?
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#29
Look out, CollegeCatholic! Rosarium's trying to steal your material!

:tomatoes:
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